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Post by tmill720 on Dec 12, 2023 9:07:32 GMT -6
Not surprised by the outcome at all. As I noted I figured NO would come ready to play and they did. They got a TON of help from the whistle gang on this, but thats not why we lost. That said, we would have had to have had much better offense to make up for those whistles taking Rudy out of the game. For a guy that doesnt foul much....him having to sit down 3 minutes into the game with 2 fouls was a bit.....questionable. Our shots rimmed out...theirs rimmed in. Broken record but best shooting big man in the league took 3 - 3 pointers tonight. Why on gods green earth Finch doesnt run some action to get him open when we're down double digits late in the game....I'll never understand. Probably becuase he'd turn them down anyway. Why we had Conely out there yet with 2 minutes left down a bunch....I also dont know. Jmac looked good. Why not get him more minutes at that point. I honestly think he's too slow to get separation. He's awesome at catch and shooting, or jab step shoot over the top of someone, but he has a really hard time getting separation from smaller defenders. And teams can play him super tight to force him to drive, as him driving and kicking is resulting in clanked 3s elsewhere. I'd like him to shoot more 3s, but they can't be forced/contested 3s right?
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Post by Bonecrusher on Dec 12, 2023 10:26:13 GMT -6
If you like watching the refs miss calls, made bad calls, and make too many calls, this game is perfect for you. For everyone else that hasn't already wasted their time with this, just skip it. This was by far the worst officiated game I've ever seen. No doubt the Pelicans are a very solid team and I'm sick of Jim Pete talking about how aggressive the Pelicans were when the Wolves were driving as well but getting absolutely no whistles at all from the officials. Hopefully the NBA issues an apology to the Wolves for this. And how did the Wolves miss the "Tournament" or not be in the championship game and or how did the 14-9 Lakers win it (other than the obvious choice of the NBA favorites)?
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Post by levine on Dec 12, 2023 12:30:15 GMT -6
Not surprised by the outcome at all. As I noted I figured NO would come ready to play and they did. They got a TON of help from the whistle gang on this, but thats not why we lost. That said, we would have had to have had much better offense to make up for those whistles taking Rudy out of the game. For a guy that doesnt foul much....him having to sit down 3 minutes into the game with 2 fouls was a bit.....questionable. Our shots rimmed out...theirs rimmed in. Broken record but best shooting big man in the league took 3 - 3 pointers tonight. Why on gods green earth Finch doesnt run some action to get him open when we're down double digits late in the game....I'll never understand. Probably becuase he'd turn them down anyway. Why we had Conely out there yet with 2 minutes left down a bunch....I also dont know. Jmac looked good. Why not get him more minutes at that point. I honestly think he's too slow to get separation. He's awesome at catch and shooting, or jab step shoot over the top of someone, but he has a really hard time getting separation from smaller defenders. And teams can play him super tight to force him to drive, as him driving and kicking is resulting in clanked 3s elsewhere. I'd like him to shoot more 3s, but they can't be forced/contested 3s right? Agreed. So far Finch has been unable to come up with anything to counter teams aggressively going after KAT beyond turning him into a passer and hoping his teammates hit shots. And KAT just refuses to shoot over smaller defenders (possibly because he makes himself a "smaller" shooter since he barley leaves the ground). It feels like forever since 2019-20 when he scored 26.5 PPM and attempted EIGHT 3s. I'm actually kind of shocked he's averaging 5 this year.
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Post by kingsxman on Dec 12, 2023 12:54:20 GMT -6
I honestly think he's too slow to get separation. He's awesome at catch and shooting, or jab step shoot over the top of someone, but he has a really hard time getting separation from smaller defenders. And teams can play him super tight to force him to drive, as him driving and kicking is resulting in clanked 3s elsewhere. I'd like him to shoot more 3s, but they can't be forced/contested 3s right? Agreed. So far Finch has been unable to come up with anything to counter teams aggressively going after KAT beyond turning him into a passer and hoping his teammates hit shots. And KAT just refuses to shoot over smaller defenders (possibly because he makes himself a "smaller" shooter since he barley leaves the ground). It feels like forever since 2019-20 when he scored 26.5 PPM and attempted EIGHT 3s. I'm actually kind of shocked he's averaging 5 this year. Good points by both of you. Regarding KAT getting separation, that would be an issue but isnt there a way to have Rudy set a screen for him? I watched Rudy do it multiple times last night for Conley or another player. Why not do the same for KAT? And your right Levine in that he doesnt leave the ground at all when he shoots. I still think he could shoot that over smaller players. I guess as far as what's better, if the options are contested or slightly contested 3 or driving into 3 people and risking A: offensive foul B: falling down and being out of the play off the rebound C: injury. I think I pick contested 3. Lets at least try it for a game and see.
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Post by tmill720 on Dec 12, 2023 13:12:11 GMT -6
Agreed. So far Finch has been unable to come up with anything to counter teams aggressively going after KAT beyond turning him into a passer and hoping his teammates hit shots. And KAT just refuses to shoot over smaller defenders (possibly because he makes himself a "smaller" shooter since he barley leaves the ground). It feels like forever since 2019-20 when he scored 26.5 PPM and attempted EIGHT 3s. I'm actually kind of shocked he's averaging 5 this year. Good points by both of you. Regarding KAT getting separation, that would be an issue but isnt there a way to have Rudy set a screen for him? I watched Rudy do it multiple times last night for Conley or another player. Why not do the same for KAT? And your right Levine in that he doesnt leave the ground at all when he shoots. I still think he could shoot that over smaller players. I guess as far as what's better, if the options are contested or slightly contested 3 or driving into 3 people and risking A: offensive foul B: falling down and being out of the play off the rebound C: injury. I think I pick contested 3. Lets at least try it for a game and see. I honestly don't think he has the agility or footwork to shoot well off a flare screen like that... or if Rudy is setting the pick, then they could just switch and he'd be equally as covered on the other side of the screen. Other options could be having a guard set the pick for matchup options and have him shoot over the small, or if the center does switch onto him, at least he could do that jab step thing. But really, the 3s that are guarding him are guarding him so tightly that there really isn't an option for him to shoot over them. He really only shoots over centers that give him a little space. Compare how the defenders are guarding him on these two game winners: Cedi gives him a foot with his hand-down. Easy jab step for the 3 over him. Game winner from February last year. Look at how tightly Daniels is up on him! He doesn't have room to breathe, let alone get a set-shot 3 over him. Daniels is daring him to drive knowing he's got help, KAT might get out of control, etc. The book is out on him right now, and to his credit, I do think he's doing really well on taking what the defense is giving him. But if we want him to shoot a lot more 3s, he'll need to get switched back on 5s at some point, or we need to have someone other than Ant be able to attack the rim for kickouts to him.
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Post by levine on Dec 12, 2023 13:50:43 GMT -6
I guess as far as what's better, if the options are contested or slightly contested 3 or driving into 3 people and risking A: offensive foul B: falling down and being out of the play off the rebound C: injury. I think I pick contested 3. Lets at least try it for a game and see. KAT refuses to shoot contested 3s. He always has.
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Post by jojo on Dec 12, 2023 13:50:46 GMT -6
Yes KAT is in a no win situation with some people. I don’t blame KAT for fouling out last night. He’s trying to make plays since nobody else was scoring and as usual got a bad whistle. New Orleans is a tough matchup since they have physical big men and also a guy like HJ who can cover him up top. But Finch needs to come up with better schemes to free him up.
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Post by levine on Dec 12, 2023 13:57:15 GMT -6
Yes KAT is in a no win situation with some people. I don’t blame KAT for fouling out last night. He’s trying to make plays since nobody else was scoring and as usual got a bad whistle. New Orleans is a tough matchup since they have physical big men and also a guy like HJ who can cover him up top. But Finch needs to come up with better schemes to free him up. I don't blame KAT at all last night. He was killing them in the 1st quarter to the tune of 10 and 7. They started clamping down on him in the 2nd and he still managed 5 and 4. But the 2nd half he always had 2 or 3 guys on him and he only was able to get 2 and 2 in the entire 2nd half. He had almost no chance of getting shots off and his teammates couldn't throw the ball into the ocean or he would've had a triple-double and we likely win.
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Post by tmill720 on Dec 12, 2023 14:02:22 GMT -6
Yes KAT is in a no win situation with some people. I don’t blame KAT for fouling out last night. He’s trying to make plays since nobody else was scoring and as usual got a bad whistle. New Orleans is a tough matchup since they have physical big men and also a guy like HJ who can cover him up top. But Finch needs to come up with better schemes to free him up. I don't blame KAT at all last night. He was killing them in the 1st quarter to the tune of 10 and 7. They started clamping down on him in the 2nd and he still managed 5 and 4. But the 2nd half he always had 2 or 3 guys on him and he only was able to get 2 and 2 in the entire 2nd half. He had almost no chance of getting shots off and his teammates couldn't throw the ball into the ocean or he would've had a triple-double and we likely win. Feels like we really could have used a great iso scorer last night. Especially one that could hit some 3s to open up the lane for KAT, maybe a guy who could get some easy fast-court layups to take the heat off their O-rebounding and half-court defense. A cherry on top could be if that guy could even break the defense down to create an open 3 for someone or draw some fouls to get Valanciunas out of the game. Would be nice to if that guy also would be able to lock down on defense with a good iso scorer like Ingram, so then NAW could pester McCollum and give Jaden a break. Man it'd be great to have one of those guys. Feels like it could have been a different game with a guy like that.
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Post by levine on Dec 12, 2023 14:05:38 GMT -6
I don't blame KAT at all last night. He was killing them in the 1st quarter to the tune of 10 and 7. They started clamping down on him in the 2nd and he still managed 5 and 4. But the 2nd half he always had 2 or 3 guys on him and he only was able to get 2 and 2 in the entire 2nd half. He had almost no chance of getting shots off and his teammates couldn't throw the ball into the ocean or he would've had a triple-double and we likely win. Feels like we really could have used a great iso scorer last night. Especially one that could hit some 3s to open up the lane for KAT, maybe a guy who could get some easy fast-court layups to take the heat off their O-rebounding and half-court defense. A cherry on top could be if that guy could even break the defense down to create an open 3 for someone or draw some fouls to get Valanciunas out of the game. Would be nice to if that guy also would be able to lock down on defense with a good iso scorer like Ingram, so then NAW could pester McCollum and give Jaden a break. Man it'd be great to have one of those guys. Feels like it could have been a different game with a guy like that. But where, oh where, can you find a guy like that?
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Post by kingsxman on Dec 12, 2023 14:55:53 GMT -6
Good points by both of you. Regarding KAT getting separation, that would be an issue but isnt there a way to have Rudy set a screen for him? I watched Rudy do it multiple times last night for Conley or another player. Why not do the same for KAT? And your right Levine in that he doesnt leave the ground at all when he shoots. I still think he could shoot that over smaller players. I guess as far as what's better, if the options are contested or slightly contested 3 or driving into 3 people and risking A: offensive foul B: falling down and being out of the play off the rebound C: injury. I think I pick contested 3. Lets at least try it for a game and see. I honestly don't think he has the agility or footwork to shoot well off a flare screen like that... or if Rudy is setting the pick, then they could just switch and he'd be equally as covered on the other side of the screen. Other options could be having a guard set the pick for matchup options and have him shoot over the small, or if the center does switch onto him, at least he could do that jab step thing. But really, the 3s that are guarding him are guarding him so tightly that there really isn't an option for him to shoot over them. He really only shoots over centers that give him a little space. Compare how the defenders are guarding him on these two game winners: Cedi gives him a foot with his hand-down. Easy jab step for the 3 over him. Game winner from February last year. Look at how tightly Daniels is up on him! He doesn't have room to breathe, let alone get a set-shot 3 over him. Daniels is daring him to drive knowing he's got help, KAT might get out of control, etc. The book is out on him right now, and to his credit, I do think he's doing really well on taking what the defense is giving him. But if we want him to shoot a lot more 3s, he'll need to get switched back on 5s at some point, or we need to have someone other than Ant be able to attack the rim for kickouts to him. Thank you. This was an excellent post to show me the difference. I really appreciate it. I did not play basketball growing up so what I learn is from watching the game, reading articles and blogs and stuff like this. And from my 2 boys who both played basketball. (1 won a AAA state title...proud dad moment). I will pay more attention to that but it does strike me a bit funny that Finch says he wants him to shoot more 3's and i hear guys like Britt say Kats "turning down" 3's to drive.
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Post by kingsxman on Dec 12, 2023 14:58:36 GMT -6
I don't blame KAT at all last night. He was killing them in the 1st quarter to the tune of 10 and 7. They started clamping down on him in the 2nd and he still managed 5 and 4. But the 2nd half he always had 2 or 3 guys on him and he only was able to get 2 and 2 in the entire 2nd half. He had almost no chance of getting shots off and his teammates couldn't throw the ball into the ocean or he would've had a triple-double and we likely win. Feels like we really could have used a great iso scorer last night. Especially one that could hit some 3s to open up the lane for KAT, maybe a guy who could get some easy fast-court layups to take the heat off their O-rebounding and half-court defense. A cherry on top could be if that guy could even break the defense down to create an open 3 for someone or draw some fouls to get Valanciunas out of the game. Would be nice to if that guy also would be able to lock down on defense with a good iso scorer like Ingram, so then NAW could pester McCollum and give Jaden a break. Man it'd be great to have one of those guys. Feels like it could have been a different game with a guy like that. Sure, but we have to make sure that we dont rest a guy like that when we play the (at the time) 14 game losing streak Spurs. Actually, thats a bit of Monday morning quarterbacking. I'm sure Ant wanted to play against the Spurs.
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Post by wunderwolf on Dec 12, 2023 15:00:44 GMT -6
Feels like we really could have used a great iso scorer last night. Especially one that could hit some 3s to open up the lane for KAT, maybe a guy who could get some easy fast-court layups to take the heat off their O-rebounding and half-court defense. A cherry on top could be if that guy could even break the defense down to create an open 3 for someone or draw some fouls to get Valanciunas out of the game. Would be nice to if that guy also would be able to lock down on defense with a good iso scorer like Ingram, so then NAW could pester McCollum and give Jaden a break. Man it'd be great to have one of those guys. Feels like it could have been a different game with a guy like that. But where, oh where, can you find a guy like that? Guys like that don't grow on trees.
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Post by tmill720 on Dec 12, 2023 15:20:19 GMT -6
I honestly don't think he has the agility or footwork to shoot well off a flare screen like that... or if Rudy is setting the pick, then they could just switch and he'd be equally as covered on the other side of the screen. Other options could be having a guard set the pick for matchup options and have him shoot over the small, or if the center does switch onto him, at least he could do that jab step thing. But really, the 3s that are guarding him are guarding him so tightly that there really isn't an option for him to shoot over them. He really only shoots over centers that give him a little space. Compare how the defenders are guarding him on these two game winners: Cedi gives him a foot with his hand-down. Easy jab step for the 3 over him. Game winner from February last year. Look at how tightly Daniels is up on him! He doesn't have room to breathe, let alone get a set-shot 3 over him. Daniels is daring him to drive knowing he's got help, KAT might get out of control, etc. The book is out on him right now, and to his credit, I do think he's doing really well on taking what the defense is giving him. But if we want him to shoot a lot more 3s, he'll need to get switched back on 5s at some point, or we need to have someone other than Ant be able to attack the rim for kickouts to him. Thank you. This was an excellent post to show me the difference. I really appreciate it. I did not play basketball growing up so what I learn is from watching the game, reading articles and blogs and stuff like this. And from my 2 boys who both played basketball. (1 won a AAA state title...proud dad moment). I will pay more attention to that but it does strike me a bit funny that Finch says he wants him to shoot more 3's and i hear guys like Britt say Kats "turning down" 3's to drive. There are some occasions where the ball gets swung to him and he either makes the extra pass (like I think you talked about earlier), or they close out aggressively and he pump-fakes and drives, that he could just shoot if he was ready to shoot as soon as he got the ball. Seems like he might be afraid of getting blocked so he'd rather drive, idk. So yeah, there are opportunities for like 1-3 more threes a game that would be good looks, but it also looks like he gets rushed and looks uncomfortable at times. Would be nice to go back to having 5s guard him to get those jab step 3s that he was so comfortable with!
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