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Post by kingsxman on Jan 11, 2024 10:43:17 GMT -6
ANT iso balled us to a loss. Hopefully one day he learns. Yup. 3 turnovers by Ant just in OT. He absolutely needs to play with a PG. He’s not even close to being ready to run a team. But that 9-2 run to end the game was inexcusable. And not boxing out in the Tatum FT miss. Someone in the Knicks thread thought I was crazy for suggesting Ant to Toronto for Quickley and Barrett. Quickley is a stud as David has said over and over. Barrett is a cheap replacement for Ant at SG. This is likely to fix our future cap issue as well (Temporarily). Yes, your crazy for suggestion Ant to Toronto for Quickley and Barrett. Even with his flaws...you dont trade Ant. Period.
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 11, 2024 10:44:54 GMT -6
I agree 100% with this. But....I can see Ant coming back with: "Uh huh. Who took all the overtime and end of game shots for the Celtics? Tatum". Tatum had the ball 90% of the time.
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Post by levine on Jan 11, 2024 10:50:42 GMT -6
And a few years ago Tatum routinely made the same poor decisions that Ant did late in games. It was really bad. But the team kept putting him in those situations and he learned from it and grew.
Ant is 22. He's shown tremendous growth year-to-year. For a player that has never played PG, decision making is usually the last thing to master. I've never been a huge Kobe fan, but at 22, his decision making was absolutely atrocious. But he had Shaq to cover for him. Ant doesn't have that. But like Kobe, I expect Ant to continually get better and better.
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jr
Junior Member
Posts: 298
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Post by jr on Jan 11, 2024 11:01:57 GMT -6
This loss has the potential to really benefit this team. It was a tough gritty game like they will see in the playoffs (and the Celtics HAVE seen). It was a game they know they could have won, and it will really sting, and they will listen/realize* that: 1-Isolation hero ball is not a sustainable offensive strategy possession after possession. 2-Frustration fouls late in games can be the difference between winning and losing. 3-Details matter--all the time. (Like boxing out on free throws even when the other team hasn't even missed one all game). 4-Sometimes role players can be the hero too. The way NAW was shooting it, he should have seen the ball in the last couple of possessions. * I hope... I think one upside could be that Ant will have to face the fact that his turn overs could be the "reason" the game was lost. Usually there are plenty of failures to go around, and even though it is true this time too, his errors are glaring and timely. Maybe this will be the lesson against iso ball he has no choice but to hear and respond to. In retrospect, I realize my reaction to Ant receiving the ball is now less than positive. He continues to use his screener to pause, step back, reset, and then have to try to beat the two guys who have now had time to position themselves. Again and again. I'm sure hoping he is pizzed at himself and will look at it as a challenge to overcome. I do have hope he will, especially with Finch calling out his play in no uncertain terms.
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2024 12:33:50 GMT -6
Other thoughts I had: Of course we got good SloMo, when he was surrounded by shooters and could use his craftiness to get into the restricted area and make a funky layup. It seemed like KAT was spacing out to the 3 point line better, and Naz is a good threat out there too, so he had the space needed. The other bummer is that when we subbed out Naz for Jaden, our spacing got janky again. He's just not reliable right now and it's really hurting us. At this point in time, I'm not sure that he needs to be on the floor in the last 4 minutes. But it also seems like 90% of his issues are confidence/rhythm related, so not sure if that would backfire. I wonder if Finch could be a little more intentional about putting Jaden in spots a few times a game to have opportunities to get some easy buckets - slashes/backcuts/postup smalls... at this point, he's the one that's going to decide how good we are going to be. Getting Kyle right was a key reason we kept it close last night. He was actually a threat offensively for the first time in a while and Boston had to guard him. When he's at least a threat, he becomes twice as valuable to the team that he already is. Jaden... man... another rough game. He really just has to play defense with one hand tied behind his back at this point. At this point, you just can't trust him out there. He was so good against Orlando, and then he followed it up with another stinker. It's really disappointing to see. He's developed a deadly midrange game and with how bad his handle is, he can't hardly get there. And when he's committing so many fouls, he hardly gets a chance to contribute. Part of it I'm sure he's a red flag for officials at this point, but I also don't know if he really knows how to use his arms on defense. I don't even know how you coach not fouling at this point with him either.
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2024 12:37:06 GMT -6
And a few years ago Tatum routinely made the same poor decisions that Ant did late in games. It was really bad. But the team kept putting him in those situations and he learned from it and grew. Ant is 22. He's shown tremendous growth year-to-year. For a player that has never played PG, decision making is usually the last thing to master. I've never been a huge Kobe fan, but at 22, his decision making was absolutely atrocious. But he had Shaq to cover for him. Ant doesn't have that. But like Kobe, I expect Ant to continually get better and better. 100% agree. With the mentality and temperament that Ant has, he's going to take this as a challenge I hope. As someone said, I think he sees those 1-1 matchups against the opponent's best defender as a challenge to score on him and make a highlight. In the same vein, I hope he sees this as his turnovers and isolation lost us the game and he's got a challenge now to learn how to play late-game offense. I have no doubts that he's going to figure it out, and that Finch will coach him well on it. It's good that this happened in a scheduled loss game as opposed to a game against the Pistons or another lowly team. Good news, we're finally out of that daunting 16 game stretch. Hopefully now the team knows that it has an opportunity to gain some more ground in the West and solidify themselves as contenders and as the 1 seed.
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Post by jojo on Jan 11, 2024 12:48:12 GMT -6
I’m not convinced going into a softer schedule will solve all these problems. They’re still playing every other night with even more B2Bs. It’s more of a mental grind than anything.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 11, 2024 13:19:11 GMT -6
This loss has the potential to really benefit this team. It was a tough gritty game like they will see in the playoffs (and the Celtics HAVE seen). It was a game they know they could have won, and it will really sting, and they will listen/realize* that: 1-Isolation hero ball is not a sustainable offensive strategy possession after possession. 2-Frustration fouls late in games can be the difference between winning and losing. 3-Details matter--all the time. (Like boxing out on free throws even when the other team hasn't even missed one all game). 4-Sometimes role players can be the hero too. The way NAW was shooting it, he should have seen the ball in the last couple of possessions. * I hope... Hoping the same. We were right there with a powerhouse which should open everyone up to constructive introspection.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 11, 2024 13:20:58 GMT -6
ANT iso balled us to a loss. Hopefully one day he learns. Yup. 3 turnovers by Ant just in OT. He absolutely needs to play with a PG. He’s not even close to being ready to run a team. But that 9-2 run to end the game was inexcusable. And not boxing out in the Tatum FT miss. Someone in the Knicks thread thought I was crazy for suggesting Ant to Toronto for Quickley and Barrett. Quickley is a stud as David has said over and over. Barrett is a cheap replacement for Ant at SG. This is likely to fix our future cap issue as well (Temporarily). Ant trade talk is 100% crazy.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 11, 2024 13:22:36 GMT -6
And a few years ago Tatum routinely made the same poor decisions that Ant did late in games. It was really bad. But the team kept putting him in those situations and he learned from it and grew. Ant is 22. He's shown tremendous growth year-to-year. For a player that has never played PG, decision making is usually the last thing to master. I've never been a huge Kobe fan, but at 22, his decision making was absolutely atrocious. But he had Shaq to cover for him. Ant doesn't have that. But like Kobe, I expect Ant to continually get better and better. I've been hard on Ant at times, but you're absolutely right. He's gotten better and better and there's no reason to think he can't keep doing that.
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Post by araxen on Jan 11, 2024 17:58:58 GMT -6
Even Jordan went through what ANT is doing now. You just have to hope he gets it, or Finch turns into Phil Jackson and convinces him that this isn't the way to win basketball games.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 12, 2024 10:44:07 GMT -6
Rewatched the last 5 minutes of regulation and overtime. Ant didn't use a single ball screen to generate movement advantage. We set numerous screens for Ant, but Ant only used them to get a switch in defender and never to generate any kind of advantage in positioning. Most of them just resulted in him being guarded by Tatum or Brown instead of Holiday and all of them just had Ant standing dribbling in the same spot he was in before the screen. Our late game offense is essentially non-existent. It's just waiting for Ant to take a shot or make a pass. There's no movement or rhythm. Ant needs to learn how to use a screen to generate at least a little movement advantage.
The Wolves had success in close games earlier this year because Ant was making some tough shots, but when those shots don't fall, it looks bad. It's really frustrating because nothing changes. I love the way Finch has managed personnel and the "vibes" of the team this year. He deserved a lot of credit for getting everyone on the same page and keeping them there (mostly) on the defensive end. His offense isn't working though. His "flow" just doesn't cut it down the stretch with our personnel.
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Post by slick21 on Jan 12, 2024 13:59:11 GMT -6
Rewatched the last 5 minutes of regulation and overtime. Ant didn't use a single ball screen to generate movement advantage. We set numerous screens for Ant, but Ant only used them to get a switch in defender and never to generate any kind of advantage in positioning. Most of them just resulted in him being guarded by Tatum or Brown instead of Holiday and all of them just had Ant standing dribbling in the same spot he was in before the screen. Our late game offense is essentially non-existent. It's just waiting for Ant to take a shot or make a pass. There's no movement or rhythm. Ant needs to learn how to use a screen to generate at least a little movement advantage.
The Wolves had success in close games earlier this year because Ant was making some tough shots, but when those shots don't fall, it looks bad. It's really frustrating because nothing changes. I love the way Finch has managed personnel and the "vibes" of the team this year. He deserved a lot of credit for getting everyone on the same page and keeping them there (mostly) on the defensive end. His offense isn't working though. His "flow" just doesn't cut it down the stretch with our personnel. In Finch's defense, when we are in these close and late games, I think Ant has a tendency of improvising on his own and tries too hard at times to be the man to make something happen. Whether it's too much dribbling or making an ill-advised pass or taking a bad shot...It's bad habits and a product of being young. I'm sure the coaches are constantly in his ear, watching film, etc. They're learning experiences that all the star players go through when they are young.
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 12, 2024 16:19:00 GMT -6
Rewatched the last 5 minutes of regulation and overtime. Ant didn't use a single ball screen to generate movement advantage. We set numerous screens for Ant, but Ant only used them to get a switch in defender and never to generate any kind of advantage in positioning. Most of them just resulted in him being guarded by Tatum or Brown instead of Holiday and all of them just had Ant standing dribbling in the same spot he was in before the screen. Our late game offense is essentially non-existent. It's just waiting for Ant to take a shot or make a pass. There's no movement or rhythm. Ant needs to learn how to use a screen to generate at least a little movement advantage.
The Wolves had success in close games earlier this year because Ant was making some tough shots, but when those shots don't fall, it looks bad. It's really frustrating because nothing changes. I love the way Finch has managed personnel and the "vibes" of the team this year. He deserved a lot of credit for getting everyone on the same page and keeping them there (mostly) on the defensive end. His offense isn't working though. His "flow" just doesn't cut it down the stretch with our personnel. In Finch's defense, when we are in these close and late games, I think Ant has a tendency of improvising on his own and tries too hard at times to be the man to make something happen. Whether it's too much dribbling or making an ill-advised pass or taking a bad shot...It's bad habits and a product of being young. I'm sure the coaches are constantly in his ear, watching film, etc. They're learning experiences that all the star players go through when they are young. I know Ant loves Finch. And we KNOW that Finch wants him to pass more. Finch was pretty direct after the game that Ant wasnt doing what he wanted. On that note about players not doing what the coaching staff wants: One thing that I heard Dane validate on his latest pod was something that I've been speculating for awhile: This whole thing of the "coaching staff" not wanting to make KAT go "sit in the corner" for 3's because he's too valuable. Kyle mentioned something about the coaching staff not wanting to make KAT a corner 3 shooter and Dane interrupted and said "No, KAT doesnt want to go to the corner". I find that a bit frustrating.
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jr
Junior Member
Posts: 298
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Post by jr on Jan 13, 2024 12:19:33 GMT -6
In Finch's defense, when we are in these close and late games, I think Ant has a tendency of improvising on his own and tries too hard at times to be the man to make something happen. Whether it's too much dribbling or making an ill-advised pass or taking a bad shot...It's bad habits and a product of being young. I'm sure the coaches are constantly in his ear, watching film, etc. They're learning experiences that all the star players go through when they are young. I know Ant loves Finch. And we KNOW that Finch wants him to pass more. Finch was pretty direct after the game that Ant wasnt doing what he wanted. On that note about players not doing what the coaching staff wants: One thing that I heard Dane validate on his latest pod was something that I've been speculating for awhile: This whole thing of the "coaching staff" not wanting to make KAT go "sit in the corner" for 3's because he's too valuable. Kyle mentioned something about the coaching staff not wanting to make KAT a corner 3 shooter and Dane interrupted and said "No, KAT doesnt want to go to the corner". I find that a bit frustrating. Why? Does he lack confidence in that shot? Or does it signify a different role, one he deems a lesser one?
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Post by levine on Jan 13, 2024 13:03:41 GMT -6
I know Ant loves Finch. And we KNOW that Finch wants him to pass more. Finch was pretty direct after the game that Ant wasnt doing what he wanted. On that note about players not doing what the coaching staff wants: One thing that I heard Dane validate on his latest pod was something that I've been speculating for awhile: This whole thing of the "coaching staff" not wanting to make KAT go "sit in the corner" for 3's because he's too valuable. Kyle mentioned something about the coaching staff not wanting to make KAT a corner 3 shooter and Dane interrupted and said "No, KAT doesnt want to go to the corner". I find that a bit frustrating. Why? Does he lack confidence in that shot? Or does it signify a different role, one he deems a lesser one? Its never been a big part of his game. He hasn't taken more than 10% of his 3s from the corner since his 2nd year (20%). And he hasn't shot the corner 3 well since 2019-20.
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