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Post by tmirvin on Jan 30, 2024 11:41:26 GMT -6
Dort is at 44/39/82 on 5 3PA/game. As you like to point out, he's a career 33% 3pt shooter with season averages of 30%, 34%, 33%, & 33%. So has he become a consistent shooter or is this year an outlier? Based on how his shot looked last night, I'd say the latter. His shot is flat and looks rushed. Did I just say that OKC should trade Dort & Giddy? 2 of darkos favorite players.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 30, 2024 11:48:52 GMT -6
thats awesome. So are you goign to be wearing any Wolves gear? Or will you be "blending in"? We'll look for a full report on how different NBA game are there. Stadium, etc. We lost to Charlotte, who was on a back to back. It seems that any "excuse" the wolves can find to take a team lightly enters into thier mind. I hope Finch is expressing how important this game is in the overall big picture. I also hope Finch has someone on the coaching staff ready to push him down if he even suggests a lineup of Jmac, Shake, Kyle, Naz, Rudy be put on the floor. Cant wait for the game. May actually have to watch this one live. So thoughts on the game from a spectator's standpoint: - Paycom center is a very bland arena. They're actually getting a new arena in OKC here within the next few years that's supposed to keep the Thunder in OKC until 2050. - People in OKC LOVE the Thunder. Outside of college sports, the Thunder are THE team and people love them. - You get a real mix of young, rowdy fans, and older folks at the game. The arena was rocking for what it was worth though. Felt like a playoff atmosphere. - They dim the lights on the crowd in the Paycom center and light the floor, something I strongly believe Target Center needs to do. - They'll light the arena "Thunder Blue" and there are 4 big Tesla coils that shoot out electricity and have such fine tuned electrical currents that they can play music. "Thunderstruck" was played through Tesla coils which was far and away one of the coolest things I've seen at a sporting event. - Fans HAAAAAATE Rudy. So many boos and vitriol towards him. It was comical. Overall, super fun game to be at and couldn't be happier the Wolves pulled it out. I was wearing a blue Ant jersey and may have pointed at whoever it was he dunked on in the fourth quarter like the bench does. I've seen a lot of teams doing the thing where they stand until the team scores. I think the Wolves may have been one of the first (first?) to do that and I've seen others now doing it. Either way, there's copying going on so by all means if some other team is doing something cool to create a vibe, the Wolves should copy it!
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Post by levine on Jan 30, 2024 12:08:15 GMT -6
Dort is at 44/39/82 on 5 3PA/game. As you like to point out, he's a career 33% 3pt shooter with season averages of 30%, 34%, 33%, & 33%. So has he become a consistent shooter or is this year an outlier? Based on how his shot looked last night, I'd say the latter. His shot is flat and looks rushed. Did I just say that OKC should trade Dort & Giddy? 2 of darkos favorite players. I actually think its possible that his shot is coming around. He's shot over 40% from the corners each of the past 4 years and he's always been a solid FT shooter. He's over 200 attempts this season, so the sample is getting up there. And he's only 24, so improvement isn't unreasonable - especially for how many he shoots each year.
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Post by WolvesLife on Jan 30, 2024 12:45:26 GMT -6
22 FTA'S for OKC (16 of them Shai), 15 for Minnesota. I don't understand what the threshold is for treating a player differently and when the refs start to give them that "star treatment". Is it when they become an all-star starter? Is it based in TV ratings? No one can ever tell me star treatment doesn't exist without it feeling like gaslighting
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Post by jojo on Jan 30, 2024 16:20:03 GMT -6
Man if the Thunder can upgrade Giddey into a shooter, they might be unstoppable. Giddey/Bertans/Picks for Keldon Johnson/Osman would make sense for both the Spurs and Thunder, and make them frighteningly solid everywhere. Then the Spurs would get a PG who can get Wemby the ball plus more picks. Win/Win for them, loss for us. Not sure they move on from Giddey. He is a good facilitator and keeps the ball moving in their offense. They basically play 4 guards which why their ball movement is so good. If they switch to a better shooter it could screw up their chemistry. I’m not sure how worried wolves should be of Thunder. In a 7-game series you can figure out ways to wear out SGA and punish their small lineup.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 30, 2024 16:36:50 GMT -6
22 FTA'S for OKC (16 of them Shai), 15 for Minnesota. I don't understand what the threshold is for treating a player differently and when the refs start to give them that "star treatment". Is it when they become an all-star starter? Is it based in TV ratings? No one can ever tell me star treatment doesn't exist without it feeling like gaslighting I don't deny that star players do get the benefit of more calls, but IMO the style of play is WAY MORE impactful in terms of foul calls. Is Chris Boucher a star? He goes to the line more per minute than Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, and Tyrese Haliburton. How about Colin Sexton? He's top 20 in the league in FT rate.
Dane Moore and Jace Fredrick touched on the fouling near the end of Dane's latest podcast. People should really listen to that. Jace said that if Ant wants to go the line way more like the top guys that he needs to completely change the way he plays. They said the same things I said about how those top foul guys play slow enough to see all the contact. I also agree with them that Ant and the team (KAT) are way too focused on the fouling. Even if they get all the calls like the one at the end correct, it's not going to dramatically change how many FTs they get.
IMO the Wolves need to be way, way smarter in how they approach the foul topic. Instead of complaining generally they should be asking the league to specifically look at things like how Shai uses his off arm to push off. Much like how KAT has gotten the rep of using his off arm to hook (correctly), they should be scouting tendencies, learning, and then trying to get the league to have more scrutiny to some of these points.
FWIW, the 2 minute report says today that Ant WAS NOT fouled on that dunk by Shai as the contact on the arm was marginal. That's utter BS IMO. Just an embarrassing thing to put out there IMO. It's still just one call though and doesn't change what I think about fouling overall. I just don't think there's some huge conspiracy against the Wolves.
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jr
Junior Member
Posts: 297
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Post by jr on Jan 30, 2024 18:34:03 GMT -6
22 FTA'S for OKC (16 of them Shai), 15 for Minnesota. I don't understand what the threshold is for treating a player differently and when the refs start to give them that "star treatment". Is it when they become an all-star starter? Is it based in TV ratings? No one can ever tell me star treatment doesn't exist without it feeling like gaslighting I don't deny that star players do get the benefit of more calls, but IMO the style of play is WAY MORE impactful in terms of foul calls. Is Chris Boucher a star? He goes to the line more per minute than Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, and Tyrese Haliburton. How about Colin Sexton? He's top 20 in the league in FT rate.
Dane Moore and Jace Fredrick touched on the fouling near the end of Dane's latest podcast. People should really listen to that. Jace said that if Ant wants to go the line way more like the top guys that he needs to completely change the way he plays. They said the same things I said about how those top foul guys play slow enough to see all the contact. I also agree with them that Ant and the team (KAT) are way too focused on the fouling. Even if they get all the calls like the one at the end correct, it's not going to dramatically change how many FTs they get.
IMO the Wolves need to be way, way smarter in how they approach the foul topic. Instead of complaining generally they should be asking the league to specifically look at things like how Shai uses his off arm to push off. Much like how KAT has gotten the rep of using his off arm to hook (correctly), they should be scouting tendencies, learning, and then trying to get the league to have more scrutiny to some of these points.
FWIW, the 2 minute report says today that Ant WAS NOT fouled on that dunk by Shai as the contact on the arm was marginal. That's utter BS IMO. Just an embarrassing thing to put out there IMO. It's still just one call though and doesn't change what I think about fouling overall. I just don't think there's some huge conspiracy against the Wolves.
My view of that dunk non foul was Shai actually pulled Ant's left arm and hand down and away from the ball but Ant's right hand still had the position to slam it down. It was not a touch foul. Whatever. For Ant to be so upset as to knowingly get himself a fine tells me there were many more instances that went uncalled and maybe even unnoticed. I am however, surprised that he didn't get a tech. He does get pretty animated with his HEY and hand clapping, etc.
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Post by Nick K on Jan 30, 2024 21:19:14 GMT -6
I'm impressed with how well coached OKC is. Wolves played great down the stretch regardless of the grade school officiating. If they would only call the same thing against each team. SGA is great but he gets calls Ant doesn't and it's not even close. I'm tired of it. Ant is getting a fine over his comments on the horrendous officiating. Good thing he can afford it. :)
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 30, 2024 21:55:08 GMT -6
One thing you'll notice too about Shai: he really doenst argue with the refs.
Hmmmm......
He may be my favorite "non" Timberwolf player. Seems like a cool dude who just goes about his business and isnt into the drama.
BTW, The NBA is just making the whole 2 minute report a joke. Too many times there have been OBVIOUS calls that they have said is opposite. Do they think we are all idiots?
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Post by slick21 on Jan 31, 2024 9:25:30 GMT -6
So thoughts on the game from a spectator's standpoint: - Paycom center is a very bland arena. They're actually getting a new arena in OKC here within the next few years that's supposed to keep the Thunder in OKC until 2050. - People in OKC LOVE the Thunder. Outside of college sports, the Thunder are THE team and people love them. - You get a real mix of young, rowdy fans, and older folks at the game. The arena was rocking for what it was worth though. Felt like a playoff atmosphere. - They dim the lights on the crowd in the Paycom center and light the floor, something I strongly believe Target Center needs to do. - They'll light the arena "Thunder Blue" and there are 4 big Tesla coils that shoot out electricity and have such fine tuned electrical currents that they can play music. "Thunderstruck" was played through Tesla coils which was far and away one of the coolest things I've seen at a sporting event. - Fans HAAAAAATE Rudy. So many boos and vitriol towards him. It was comical. Overall, super fun game to be at and couldn't be happier the Wolves pulled it out. I was wearing a blue Ant jersey and may have pointed at whoever it was he dunked on in the fourth quarter like the bench does. I've seen a lot of teams doing the thing where they stand until the team scores. I think the Wolves may have been one of the first (first?) to do that and I've seen others now doing it. Either way, there's copying going on so by all means if some other team is doing something cool to create a vibe, the Wolves should copy it!
I despise the fact that the Wolves do the "stand until we score" thing for the simple fact that it was an action that D'Lo insisted the fans do.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 31, 2024 9:29:12 GMT -6
One thing you'll notice too about Shai: he really doenst argue with the refs. Hmmmm...... He may be my favorite "non" Timberwolf player. Seems like a cool dude who just goes about his business and isnt into the drama. BTW, The NBA is just making the whole 2 minute report a joke. Too many times there have been OBVIOUS calls that they have said is opposite. Do they think we are all idiots? The NBA saying that wasn't a foul on Shai is absolute joke. Jon K summed it up well...
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Post by Bonecrusher on Jan 31, 2024 10:23:12 GMT -6
The missed calls on Ant's attempted dunk in the first half (Chet) and the made dunk at the end (Shai) were most definitely fouls. I get the frustration for sure after watching Shai parade to the line all game, but we do need to understand that there's not some conspiracy vs. Wolves players. The problem is the type of fouls players are drawing. Most of the top tier players in foul drawing like Embiid, Luka, and Shai don't draw them with force to the rim. Guys like Ant (and KAT) are hard to ref because they are going so hard into the lane and contact comes quickly on those situations. It's hard to see if that hand slap got ball or was it on the arm. Did Chet get the ball or arm on the block attempt? Shai is much different because he draws fouls slowly through extreme control. Same for Embiid and Luka. They're getting their calls via body control not speed/force. Reffing those guys is hard because they are fouls through marginal contact, but because it happens relatively slowly it's easy to see and calling it is relatively easy. How do you change that? Allow guys to be fouled? I really get the frustration. I'm frustrated too. I just don't see how you change it given how fast the game happens the types of contact Ant is initiating. Refs are human and those things happen fast. What I'd love to see is Ant (and KAT) develop more of an in between game with head fakes and floaters. If Ant just learns to downshift one gear getting into the lane and then shoot floaters or put up a fake, he'll start to put the defense off balance like it is for Shai. One thing you'll notice too about Shai: he really doenst argue with the refs. Hmmmm...... He may be my favorite "non" Timberwolf player. Seems like a cool dude who just goes about his business and isnt into the drama. BTW, The NBA is just making the whole 2 minute report a joke. Too many times there have been OBVIOUS calls that they have said is opposite. Do they think we are all idiots? I don't think it's a conspiracy against the Wolves more than just some players get all the touch fouls while others are getting absolutely hammered. And I recall in the past so many barfing out the idea that we were outside shooters and they never as many calls because they are not driving to the lane and now we are driving to the lane and still getting no calls. The entire things is b.s.
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Post by wunderwolf on Jan 31, 2024 10:56:49 GMT -6
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Post by araxen on Jan 31, 2024 15:29:58 GMT -6
I personally believe it's only a matter of time before a team walks out during a game due to the officiating. It's been festering for awhile, and it's going to boil over soon.
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Post by Nick K on Jan 31, 2024 21:19:43 GMT -6
One thing you'll notice too about Shai: he really doenst argue with the refs. Hmmmm...... He may be my favorite "non" Timberwolf player. Seems like a cool dude who just goes about his business and isnt into the drama. BTW, The NBA is just making the whole 2 minute report a joke. Too many times there have been OBVIOUS calls that they have said is opposite. Do they think we are all idiots? I've loved those Kentucky guys for years. Cal knows how to recruit and develop guys for the NBA. No one is close to him.
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Post by Nick K on Jan 31, 2024 21:31:02 GMT -6
Apparently the defender isn't allowed his space and can't move while he defends. He just has to stand like a matador and wave guys by. I've seen much better high school officiating.
Obviously the league condones it. Ultimately it's up to the owners to make demands for changes.
My best changes are: 1. Let then play! Bring flow back to the game.
2. Stop all ticky fouls that have no effect on the play.
3. Stop calling the imperceptible travel off the dribble. They allow 3 steps to the basket. It has zero effect on the play.
4. Lastly and maybe the most important....call it the same way for both teams!!!!! Why is that so difficult?
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Post by kingsxman on Feb 1, 2024 7:42:48 GMT -6
One thing you'll notice too about Shai: he really doenst argue with the refs. Hmmmm...... He may be my favorite "non" Timberwolf player. Seems like a cool dude who just goes about his business and isnt into the drama. BTW, The NBA is just making the whole 2 minute report a joke. Too many times there have been OBVIOUS calls that they have said is opposite. Do they think we are all idiots? I've loved those Kentucky guys for years. Cal knows how to recruit and develop guys for the NBA. No one is close to him. Ha. This is my issue with college sports. Yeah, Cal gets to look through the best in the nation and say "I'll take that one, and that one..." and then everyone says "what a great coach". Look I'm sure he's a good coach, but lets see what he could do with the talent the Gophers have. Thats just one of the reasons I dont follow college.
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Post by tmill720 on Feb 1, 2024 9:08:37 GMT -6
I've loved those Kentucky guys for years. Cal knows how to recruit and develop guys for the NBA. No one is close to him. Ha. This is my issue with college sports. Yeah, Cal gets to look through the best in the nation and say "I'll take that one, and that one..." and then everyone says "what a great coach". Look I'm sure he's a good coach, but lets see what he could do with the talent the Gophers have. Thats just one of the reasons I dont follow college. I think a "good coach" can take many different shapes and forms, just like "good players" can. A good player can be a good shooter, a good passer, a good post player, good at defense, etc, while also being terrible at some of those same things. A good coach can be good at Xs and Os, managing personalities, motivation, rotation management, recruiting, etc, while also being terrible at some of those things. I used to think Calipari was a terrible coach because of how bad his in-game decisions were and how underwhelming his results are for having such amazing talent at his disposal, but it is pretty incredible how he can recruit/relate to the players and manage egos well. Similar to Phil Jackson - I think his greatest talent was managing personalities, not as much the Xs and Os. Still a great coach though.
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Post by Nick K on Feb 1, 2024 13:08:48 GMT -6
I've loved those Kentucky guys for years. Cal knows how to recruit and develop guys for the NBA. No one is close to him. Ha. This is my issue with college sports. Yeah, Cal gets to look through the best in the nation and say "I'll take that one, and that one..." and then everyone says "what a great coach". Look I'm sure he's a good coach, but lets see what he could do with the talent the Gophers have. Thats just one of the reasons I dont follow college. Why do you suppose he gets the picks of the litter? Because he delivers. Other schools get top notch guys too.
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Post by levine on Feb 1, 2024 13:10:55 GMT -6
Ha. This is my issue with college sports. Yeah, Cal gets to look through the best in the nation and say "I'll take that one, and that one..." and then everyone says "what a great coach". Look I'm sure he's a good coach, but lets see what he could do with the talent the Gophers have. Thats just one of the reasons I dont follow college. Why do you suppose he gets the picks of the litter? Because he delivers. Other schools get top notch guys too. Because his emphasis is getting guys to the Pros, not winning titles.
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Post by Nick K on Feb 1, 2024 13:15:39 GMT -6
Why do you suppose he gets the picks of the litter? Because he delivers. Other schools get top notch guys too. Because his emphasis is getting guys to the Pros, not winning titles. That may be but he's setting guys up for life and that's what the players care most about.
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Post by tmirvin on Feb 1, 2024 13:50:22 GMT -6
Ha. This is my issue with college sports. Yeah, Cal gets to look through the best in the nation and say "I'll take that one, and that one..." and then everyone says "what a great coach". Look I'm sure he's a good coach, but lets see what he could do with the talent the Gophers have. Thats just one of the reasons I dont follow college. Why do you suppose he gets the picks of the litter? Because he delivers. Other schools get top notch guys too. From the interviews I've seen, it's because he's upfront and honest with recruits. He tells them what their weaknesses are and tells them he isn't promising them anything. Playing time, starting spots are all earned. He also demands defensive effort. This approach is going to weed out guys who want to coast through college and get to the league. His reputation of getting guys to the league helps affirm his message so guys who aren't scared of hard work, sign with UK. The weirdest coaching tactic I've seen in the last couple decades was when he played 2 platoons during KAT's year there. He has so many good players, he just played 2 different teams. It was so odd.
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Post by levine on Feb 1, 2024 13:51:45 GMT -6
Because his emphasis is getting guys to the Pros, not winning titles. That may be but he's setting guys up for life and that's what the players care most about. That's basically what I said.
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