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Post by levine on Dec 19, 2018 21:59:54 GMT -6
All 5 starters in the negatives, all 5 bench players in the positive...
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Post by levine on Dec 19, 2018 22:00:38 GMT -6
I know RoCo came to the wolves and looked phenomenal on his first 4 or 5 games - but now he looks average. Is this who he is - a guy who isn’t a great disruptive defender but who is just a solid containment defender - and who is offensively challenged and a streaky 3pt shooter who is also going to take his fare share of bad shots? Nah, he's both banged up and being coached by Thibs.
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Post by Bonecrusher on Dec 19, 2018 22:09:52 GMT -6
Only one person responsible for this loss. THIBS. No Okogie or Tyus in and Detroit beats us. Just a stubborn fool.
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Post by firethibs on Dec 19, 2018 22:11:58 GMT -6
All 5 starters in the negatives, all 5 bench players in the positive... I think we have a balanced team. I don't see that much talent difference between guys 2-10 on our roster....We have Kat and then we have 9 other guys that are good roll players but just not talented enough to win against starters in this league
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Post by firethibs on Dec 19, 2018 22:15:18 GMT -6
Only one person responsible for this loss. THIBS. No Okogie or Tyus in and Detroit beats us. Just a stubborn fool. Tyus is a decent guy off the bench. Solid defender, decent distributor, poor finisher and a horrible shooter. While he might be able to hold his own against guys off the bench....he would completely be outplayed by most starting PG's in this league (even like a Reg Jackson)
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Post by firethibs on Dec 19, 2018 22:17:32 GMT -6
I know RoCo came to the wolves and looked phenomenal on his first 4 or 5 games - but now he looks average. Is this who he is - a guy who isn’t a great disruptive defender but who is just a solid containment defender - and who is offensively challenged and a streaky 3pt shooter who is also going to take his fare share of bad shots? Nah, he's both banged up and being coached by Thibs. I hope its the knee and not the years of evidence that show that the 76ers won the talent part of the deal by getting JB while giving up Dario & RoCo.
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Post by The Country Club on Dec 20, 2018 3:12:05 GMT -6
RoCo allowed Bullock to get going in the 4th quarter. Blake got going in the 4th on Dario (12 points in 4.5 minutes) and then Taj.
That was a full blown meltdown on many fronts where Thibs simply got outcoached by Casey and the team (starters *and* bench) got outworked. Okogie was -11 in the 4th and let Langston Galloway pop a couple of baskets. Tyus was -6 in 4 minutes.
Our 3 point shooting is also in the trash lately and that's a team-wide thing.
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Post by The Country Club on Dec 20, 2018 3:18:45 GMT -6
I know RoCo came to the wolves and looked phenomenal on his first 4 or 5 games - but now he looks average. Is this who he is - a guy who isn’t a great disruptive defender but who is just a solid containment defender - and who is offensively challenged and a streaky 3pt shooter who is also going to take his fare share of bad shots? The shooter part you bring up is legit but Covington is, when healthy, a very good to elite defender. Covington's shooting has actually been better here than it was in Philly.
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Post by The Country Club on Dec 20, 2018 3:31:36 GMT -6
All 5 starters in the negatives, all 5 bench players in the positive... I think we have a balanced team. I don't see that much talent difference between guys 2-10 on our roster....We have Kat and then we have 9 other guys that are good roll players but just not talented enough to win against starters in this league I think it's more like four tiers on the roster. KAT ---- Saric, Covington, Taj (generally + players, not great but are going to help more than hurt although Taj is in a much more limited fashion and here only for leadership on team...generally are core or "really need to impress to trade") ---- Okogie, Tyus, Dieng (decent, have flaws, but are generally neutral or slight contributors) ---- Rose, Wiggins, Teague (net negative players on the whole or are significantly flawed despite some positives) I'm sure I'll get crap about putting Tyus and Okogie in tier 3 but I don't consider them good enough to be in the core. Okogie has the most potential to be out of the three to move into tier 2 but I've said if I needed to move him to get rid of Wiggins I wouldn't hesitate if we were upgrading on the return. I also think Okogie's offense is not that good right now to be "core" - again, in time it has a good chance to be.
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Post by firethibs on Dec 20, 2018 7:16:10 GMT -6
I think we have a balanced team. I don't see that much talent difference between guys 2-10 on our roster....We have Kat and then we have 9 other guys that are good roll players but just not talented enough to win against starters in this league I think it's more like four tiers on the roster. KAT ---- Saric, Covington, Taj (generally + players, not great but are going to help more than hurt although Taj is in a much more limited fashion and here only for leadership on team...generally are core or "really need to impress to trade") ---- Okogie, Tyus, Dieng (decent, have flaws, but are generally neutral or slight contributors) ---- Rose, Wiggins, Teague (net negative players on the whole or are significantly flawed despite some positives) I'm sure I'll get crap about putting Tyus and Okogie in tier 3 but I don't consider them good enough to be in the core. Okogie has the most potential to be out of the three to move into tier 2 but I've said if I needed to move him to get rid of Wiggins I wouldn't hesitate if we were upgrading on the return. I also think Okogie's offense is not that good right now to be "core" - again, in time it has a good chance to be. I know my take that our 2 - 10 guys are pretty equal talentwise was simplistic. But, the points I was trying to convey: 1) Our bench is actually decent for a change. Our bench can usually stay competitive or positive against the other teams reserves. Haven't been too many wolves teams that were like that. But, that in no way implies that I think our reserves are good enough to hang with the other teams starters. 2) If you had to rate our starters against the rest of the starters in the league at their position...where would they place?? Kat is obviously top 1-3. But, then I'm not sure that any of our other players I would rate in the top half at their position. I think we'd have a lot of guys in the 16-22 out of 30 range. And Teague I'd probably rate as their being 25th to 30th in starting PG's. And I don't think that we have any diamonds sitting our bench (outside of the possibility of Okogie becoming special) that I would rate better than half the starters on other team. I like Saric - but there's probably at least 20 PF's I'd rather have then him. I like Tyus - but there's probably 28 PG's in the league that I'd rather have than him. 3) I do really like RoCo - but I don't think RoCo being arguably your 2nd best player is a good thing. We need to put talent around Kat - otherwise its feeling a lot like this could be a repeat of the KG era in Minnesota. Just stinks that we had to trade away a talent like JB due to that fit not working out
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Post by The Country Club on Dec 20, 2018 7:41:06 GMT -6
Agree with you completely...but I can't blame Thibs on that. Taylor crapped the bed on maxing Wiggins and based on what's been bantered in rumormill Thibs wanted him out of here.
Like I've mentioned (and got beat up for by others)...if someone comes along and offers a Beal type player for Wiggins *and* Okogie, I think you have to strongly mull it over and be willing to give up Okogie to get rid of Wiggins. Okogie will probably be a good player in the NBA but I don't think "good" can offset a guy who is generally - in most facets of his game.
Agree with this.
Saric and Covington are arguably 4th option type guys and it's great to have two like that.
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Post by The Country Club on Dec 20, 2018 8:12:24 GMT -6
One other thing - KAT getting dinged on that phantom 4th foul in the 3rd quarter totally changed him. He retreated into a shell and was passive af the rest of the game.
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Post by firethibs on Dec 20, 2018 8:57:02 GMT -6
Agree with you completely...but I can't blame Thibs on that. Taylor crapped the bed on maxing Wiggins and based on what's been bantered in rumormill Thibs wanted him out of here. Yep. But, I also go back to that one summer when we had Kat, Butler, Wigs & 30 million in cap space - and we ended up using that 30 million to bring in Teague & Taj. I just keep wondering if there would have been a better way to have used that space that summer. I remember hearing we tried for Lowry.
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Post by levine on Dec 20, 2018 10:58:07 GMT -6
Saric:
I think there is a good chance he's only scratching his potential. He's been absolutely terrific since the trade in (stupidly) limited minutes.
24 MPG: 11.4 PPG (50/37/89), 6 RPG (9 PER36), 1.5 APG (I feel this will go up as players get used to his passing). He's been solid on defense, he's one of our best players at boxing out and his BBIQ is off the charts.
He has the best on court/off court numbers of any Wolf that has played regularly since the trade, and his fir with KAT has been tremendous. Thibs should be fired just for not playing the 2 of them together 30 MPG.
And he's only 24 years old - just 1.5 years older than KAT.
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Post by Nick K on Dec 20, 2018 12:12:57 GMT -6
One other thing - KAT getting dinged on that phantom 4th foul in the 3rd quarter totally changed him. He retreated into a shell and was passive af the rest of the game. Yep, that 4th foul was really bad. There was just nothing there and it did limit him. At least the 5th foul was a foul. Hopefully he'll learn from that.
Thibs is a failure as a coach because players don't "buy in" to his approach on many levels. My hope is we have a tough stretch on the road and if we lose those games maybe, just maybe, Taylor steps up. We're 2nd or 3rd from last place as it is. We play 10 games in the last 19 days.
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Post by Nick K on Dec 20, 2018 12:27:55 GMT -6
Saric: I think there is a good chance he's only scratching his potential. He's been absolutely terrific since the trade in (stupidly) limited minutes. 24 MPG: 11.4 PPG (50/37/89), 6 RPG (9 PER36), 1.5 APG (I feel this will go up as players get used to his passing). He's been solid on defense, he's one of our best players at boxing out and his BBIQ is off the charts. He has the best on court/off court numbers of any Wolf that has played regularly since the trade, and his fir with KAT has been tremendous. Thibs should be fired just for not playing the 2 of them together 30 MPG. And he's only 24 years old - just 1.5 years older than KAT. I agree with all. He's been fabulous and his shot didn't fall early on but is falling now. In fact he's been hot from 3 of late.
Saric is a complete player for a big guy. His toughness inside alone is why he needs to start and finish games.
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