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Post by WolvesLife on Nov 15, 2018 12:15:34 GMT -6
Arguably, the most interesting part about the post-Butler Era isn't about Covington and Saric, but rather Derrick Rose's performance.
I know there's a lot of reasons to dislike his game defensively, the risky turnover-prone passes, etc.. But he's had a really interesting effect on the franchise.
"In 13 games this season, Rose is averaging 19.2 points, 3.5 rebounds and 4.8 assists while shooting 45.7 percent from the field, 48.8 percent from beyond the arc and 82.7 percent from the free-throw line. Minnesota is a plus-3.3 when Derrick Rose is on the floor and a minus-17.0 when he’s not, per NBA.com."
In his 4 starts (obviously skewed by the 50 point outlier), he's averaging 30.8 ppg, and also has the largest average ppg increase from last season out of anyone in the NBA at +10.8 ppg (ahead of our former wolf Zach LaVine at +10.4 and Javale Mcgee at +8.9). While I understand a huge part of this is due to a huge increase in overall usage, it's hard to argue that the guy isn't giving it his all.
He's also stirred up the fan base, not just for the Wolves but all the Derrick Rose fans around the world. Not only is his jersey the fastest to sell out in the team store according to their sales reps, there are also several people campaigning on social media to have him voted into the all-star game this year, citing that "Derrick Rose scoring 50 is more meaningful than KD's rings."
I'm putting this up here because this community seems to be the only one not wearing Rose-colored glasses (see what I did there?) and are definitely not afraid to call out ways he may be negatively affecting the game. This should make for an interesting season-long conversation!
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Post by Nick K on Nov 15, 2018 12:49:26 GMT -6
Arguably, the most interesting part about the post-Butler Era isn't about Covington and Saric, but rather Derrick Rose's performance. I know there's a lot of reasons to dislike his game defensively, the risky turnover-prone passes, etc.. But he's had a really interesting effect on the franchise. "In 13 games this season, Rose is averaging 19.2 points, 3.5 rebounds and 4.8 assists while shooting 45.7 percent from the field, 48.8 percent from beyond the arc and 82.7 percent from the free-throw line. Minnesota is a plus-3.3 when Derrick Rose is on the floor and a minus-17.0 when he’s not, per NBA.com." In his 4 starts (obviously skewed by the 50 point outlier), he's averaging 30.8 ppg, and also has the largest average ppg increase from last season out of anyone in the NBA at +10.8 ppg (ahead of our former wolf Zach LaVine at +10.4 and Javale Mcgee at +8.9). While I understand a huge part of this is due to a huge increase in overall usage, it's hard to argue that the guy isn't giving it his all. He's also stirred up the fan base, not just for the Wolves but all the Derrick Rose fans around the world. Not only is his jersey the fastest to sell out in the team store according to their sales reps, there are also several people campaigning on social media to have him voted into the all-star game this year, citing that "Derrick Rose scoring 50 is more meaningful than KD's rings." I'm putting this up here because this community seems to be the only one not wearing Rose-colored glasses (see what I did there?) and are definitely not afraid to call out ways he may be negatively affecting the game. This should make for an interesting season-long conversation! In fairness to him that needed to be said. I've been critical of D Rose but in the last 10 games or so I have to say he's been very effective. That said do we want a PG dominated style of play? (old school Thibs) He is the kind of guy who can just shoot you out of a game.
Now if you could only muzzle him a bit. Put him on a leash. He can be effective on that 2nd unit as long as he gets others involved too.
I like his humble personality and am impressed by all the people who are pulling for him.
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Post by levine on Nov 15, 2018 13:07:38 GMT -6
The fear with Rose is when his shooting comes back down to Earth, his value absolutely craters.
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Post by tjstyles on Nov 15, 2018 13:37:43 GMT -6
Arguably, the most interesting part about the post-Butler Era isn't about Covington and Saric, but rather Derrick Rose's performance. I know there's a lot of reasons to dislike his game defensively, the risky turnover-prone passes, etc.. But he's had a really interesting effect on the franchise. "In 13 games this season, Rose is averaging 19.2 points, 3.5 rebounds and 4.8 assists while shooting 45.7 percent from the field, 48.8 percent from beyond the arc and 82.7 percent from the free-throw line. Minnesota is a plus-3.3 when Derrick Rose is on the floor and a minus-17.0 when he’s not, per NBA.com." In his 4 starts (obviously skewed by the 50 point outlier), he's averaging 30.8 ppg, and also has the largest average ppg increase from last season out of anyone in the NBA at +10.8 ppg (ahead of our former wolf Zach LaVine at +10.4 and Javale Mcgee at +8.9). While I understand a huge part of this is due to a huge increase in overall usage, it's hard to argue that the guy isn't giving it his all. He's also stirred up the fan base, not just for the Wolves but all the Derrick Rose fans around the world. Not only is his jersey the fastest to sell out in the team store according to their sales reps, there are also several people campaigning on social media to have him voted into the all-star game this year, citing that "Derrick Rose scoring 50 is more meaningful than KD's rings." I'm putting this up here because this community seems to be the only one not wearing Rose-colored glasses (see what I did there?) and are definitely not afraid to call out ways he may be negatively affecting the game. This should make for an interesting season-long conversation! First the increase in points per game is incredibly misleading (for all 3 players mentioned); he played 12.4 minutes per game last season vs. 29.9 minutes per game this season. When you increase your minutes played per game, all of your stats should go up by that factor. He is playing almost 150% more minutes, so his point had better go up as well (for the record, McGee had a near identical minutes surge, and LaVine also bumped up 30%). That said, his per36 numbers went up as well, and that I am impressed with. But, that number is a more realistic 6.3 points. That is still impressive, but as levine mentioned, Rose is shooting almost 18% over his career average from the 3 point line, and that is unlikely to be sustainable. If he manages to sustain it, then fantastic. But, Wiggins has started out more than one season shooting north of 40% from 3 as well (he is currently at 41.7%), but he always comes crashing back down by the end of December or so. I don't mind having Rose here. I don't mind Rose getting playing time. I am happy that we paid him the amount we did, and I even think he looks pretty decent out there. My total concern is the team (and/or the fans) making long term decisions based on Rose's play. Rose is on the back-end of his career, has had multiple long-recovery injuries to the same place(s), and does not complement our core franchise player(s) as well as other options out there. When people say that the one, single 50 point game in the last 6 years of Rose's career is "more meaningful than KD's rings", that is the "crazy talk" I am fearful of. Rose and Durant should not be in the same conversation, even if it is more tongue-in-cheek. By all means, cheer Rose on and enjoy the big games he has when he has them. But, every single staffing decision made for the Timberwolves should focus 100% on what is best for Towns. How can we maximize Towns? How can Towns help make the players around him better? What sets will feature Towns and make teams have to scheme against him (and through that take pressure off of the other players on the court leading to easy points)? How do we build a defense that helps play to his strengths and limit the exploitation of his weaknesses? "Derrick Rose" is not the answer to any of those questions. Towns is the undisputed best player on the team and the player we have locked up for the longest period of time. He is the future of the Timberwolves and should be the only consideration when deciding what direction to take. Every other player on the roster is "expendable" if they don't fit the scheme that works best with Towns.
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 17, 2018 5:06:37 GMT -6
Rose's defense is still trash but as a Lou Williams/instant offense role on this roster where he's 6th man, I can live with him.
That said, we gotta figure out a way to move Teague (preferably) or Tyus (with Dieng) to free up minutes for Okogie.
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Post by kingsxman on Nov 17, 2018 9:22:35 GMT -6
I don't mind having Rose here. I don't mind Rose getting playing time. I am happy that we paid him the amount we did, and I even think he looks pretty decent out there. My total concern is the team (and/or the fans) making long term decisions based on Rose's play. Rose is on the back-end of his career, has had multiple long-recovery injuries to the same place(s), and does not complement our core franchise player(s) as well as other options out there. When people say that the one, single 50 point game in the last 6 years of Rose's career is "more meaningful than KD's rings", that is the "crazy talk" I am fearful of. Rose and Durant should not be in the same conversation, even if it is more tongue-in-cheek. By all means, cheer Rose on and enjoy the big games he has when he has them. But, every single staffing decision made for the Timberwolves should focus 100% on what is best for Towns. How can we maximize Towns? How can Towns help make the players around him better? What sets will feature Towns and make teams have to scheme against him (and through that take pressure off of the other players on the court leading to easy points)? How do we build a defense that helps play to his strengths and limit the exploitation of his weaknesses? "Derrick Rose" is not the answer to any of those questions. Towns is the undisputed best player on the team and the player we have locked up for the longest period of time. He is the future of the Timberwolves and should be the only consideration when deciding what direction to take. Every other player on the roster is "expendable" if they don't fit the scheme that works best with Towns. The bolded are the keys. Rose in a vacuum is fine. But he is taking minutes away from long term pieces which Thibs does not care about right now. Thats the issue. And Thibs will make decisions based on Derek Rose. I have no doubts that right now Thibs is thinking about, if he can convince Taylor to let things stay as they are, how much he is going to have to pay Rose next year and how can he build around Rose and Towns.
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Post by boognish on Nov 17, 2018 9:56:14 GMT -6
I don't mind having Rose here. I don't mind Rose getting playing time. I am happy that we paid him the amount we did, and I even think he looks pretty decent out there. My total concern is the team (and/or the fans) making long term decisions based on Rose's play. Rose is on the back-end of his career, has had multiple long-recovery injuries to the same place(s), and does not complement our core franchise player(s) as well as other options out there. When people say that the one, single 50 point game in the last 6 years of Rose's career is "more meaningful than KD's rings", that is the "crazy talk" I am fearful of. Rose and Durant should not be in the same conversation, even if it is more tongue-in-cheek. By all means, cheer Rose on and enjoy the big games he has when he has them. But, every single staffing decision made for the Timberwolves should focus 100% on what is best for Towns. How can we maximize Towns? How can Towns help make the players around him better? What sets will feature Towns and make teams have to scheme against him (and through that take pressure off of the other players on the court leading to easy points)? How do we build a defense that helps play to his strengths and limit the exploitation of his weaknesses? "Derrick Rose" is not the answer to any of those questions. Towns is the undisputed best player on the team and the player we have locked up for the longest period of time. He is the future of the Timberwolves and should be the only consideration when deciding what direction to take. Every other player on the roster is "expendable" if they don't fit the scheme that works best with Towns. The bolded are the keys. Rose in a vacuum is fine. But he is taking minutes away from long term pieces which Thibs does not care about right now. Thats the issue. And Thibs will make decisions based on Derek Rose. I have no doubts that right now Thibs is thinking about, if he can convince Taylor to let things stay as they are, how much he is going to have to pay Rose next year and how can he build around Rose and Towns. Rose played great last night, again, distributing the ball well and creating his own offense. The only one he is taking minutes from right now that is a long-term piece of this team is possibly Okogie, but he's a rook and getting limited minutes initially won't be the end of the world for him. I seriously doubt that Rose will be totally healthy all season, so Okogie will get some minutes as the season progresses. Having veteran leadership on the floor is important for this team, and Rose is doing a great job (along with Taj) of filling that role so far. Both are positive guys who lead by example and are loved by the other players. I don't see any reason to worry about Rose getting minutes at this point. He's had a lot of injuries, but he is only 30 and has shown himself to be a quality backup PG this year.
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