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Post by The Country Club on Nov 18, 2018 12:41:14 GMT -6
4 in a row? Maybe?
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Post by Nick K on Nov 18, 2018 15:52:22 GMT -6
Great Thibs game plan. Slow, low energy, poor shooting, no ball movement and not enough shots for Towns. Besides that we're only down by 4 at the half.
Need to see a different team next half.
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Post by Bonecrusher on Nov 18, 2018 16:06:34 GMT -6
PG play is terrible for the Wolves.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 18, 2018 16:14:50 GMT -6
It got worse. Memphis really passes the ball quickly to open men. Make shots too.
For some reason we don't pass the ball today at all. We shoot only after getting the ball with 3 Griz around us. No spacing, cutting or ball movement. I guess that's the game plan.
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Post by ellimist on Nov 18, 2018 16:39:23 GMT -6
Seriously, why are we not playing Okogie and try and make him defend Mike Conley? Jesus...
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Post by Nick K on Nov 18, 2018 16:42:54 GMT -6
Thibs massively outcoached by JB Bickerstaff.
They play simple ball, the kind of ball we play when we look good.
If you can't fall in love with moving the ball after watching Memphis, you're hopeless.
What in hell were the Wolves thinking going into today's game. Everything we did right in the last 3 games we saw none of that today. Whoever came up with this game plan needs to be fired immediately.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 18, 2018 16:52:36 GMT -6
Seriously, why are we not playing Okogie and try and make him defend Mike Conley? Jesus... We should of at least tried him. Too many of our guys didn't come to play. No one defended Gasol today either.
The Thibs motto....."when something doesn't work, I stick with it."
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 18, 2018 17:15:17 GMT -6
Teague sucks
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Post by WolvesLife on Nov 18, 2018 17:36:05 GMT -6
This whole 9 man rotation bit is bs. Okogie could've brought energy when it was flat, Tolliver could've made some shots when others couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.. There's no reason why we can't go 11 players deep, but hey just ask our joyless curmudgeon of a coach, the starters need to do ****ing everything! Always has to be at least one starter in at all times.. Bullshit. Every coach in this league is out coaching Thibs, you can't constantly pound puzzle pieces together with a hammer and expect the fit to look good...
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Post by firethibs on Nov 18, 2018 17:44:41 GMT -6
Just can't fall behind by 15 to a great defensive team like Memphis.
I thought Tyus looked a bit more alive tonight. Still can't shoot from 3...but he played a lot better than he has been.
I love Covington.
I'm staying positive.
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Post by boognish on Nov 18, 2018 18:48:58 GMT -6
Meh, a good game to just put in the rearview mirror. Our 20 turnovers were the story of the game, and Memphis is really good at creating those and also at making teams play at their pace, which they did today.
You could spend a lot of time ripping on individual players in this one but, the truth is, nobody played great. It's a long season and you lose some. Memphis is a tough team because they're so physical and grind both you and the pace of the game down so much. The only remarkable thing from this game is that KAT had 20 rebounds; pretty sweet.
On to the next opponent...
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Post by drdeath on Nov 18, 2018 19:42:51 GMT -6
Seriously, why are we not playing Okogie and try and make him defend Mike Conley? Jesus... We should of at least tried him. Too many of our guys didn't come to play. No one defended Gasol today either.
The Thibs motto....."when something doesn't work, I stick with it."
This! It was absolutely maddening that Okogie did not see some PT given the performance of the team today. They needed an energy guy out there to give them a shot in the arm. It’s incredible Thibs didn’t find time in the rotation of the zombies today.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 18, 2018 21:55:56 GMT -6
Meh, a good game to just put in the rearview mirror. Our 20 turnovers were the story of the game, and Memphis is really good at creating those and also at making teams play at their pace, which they did today. You could spend a lot of time ripping on individual players in this one but, the truth is, nobody played great. It's a long season and you lose some. Memphis is a tough team because they're so physical and grind both you and the pace of the game down so much. The only remarkable thing from this game is that KAT had 20 rebounds; pretty sweet. On to the next opponent... I've said this every year under Thibs....It's not so much we lose, but it's how we lose that's the killer.
It was the style of play that killed us today.
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salty
Full Member
Posts: 185
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Post by salty on Nov 18, 2018 22:28:07 GMT -6
We got bad Teague today. The Teague that looks like he couldn't care less about playing. We also got bad Wiggins, which is almost always what we get from Wiggins. He is clearly my least favorite player to watch ever. Taj and Gorgi looked aweful as well. So, what does Thibs do about it? Nothing. No Okogie or Tolliver. Just incredible of Thibs to not do anything to win this game.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 18, 2018 22:42:44 GMT -6
We got bad Teague today. The Teague that looks like he couldn't care less about playing. We also got bad Wiggins, which is almost always what we get from Wiggins. He is clearly my least favorite player to watch ever. Taj and Gorgi looked aweful as well. So, what does Thibs do about it? Nothing. No Okogie or Tolliver. Just incredible of Thibs to not do anything to win this game. All true! The coach doesn't get it? 9 man rotation used to be the way but no more. When players are having a bad game get them out of there and give someone else a chance. Thibs said we have 11 starters so why not use all 11?
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 19, 2018 4:06:25 GMT -6
Yesterday Portland played 8 "rotation" guys with 3 guys brought on in garbage time and won.
The Lakers played 9 in their rotation (with one garbage time add on) in a win.
The Spurs played only 8 guys more than 10 minutes with one garbage time add on in a win.
I know everyone's fixated on Thibs playing 9 and complaining about it - here's the thing, three teams generally did that yesterday *and* won.
The number of guys you play isn't critical. What matters is *how* they play and fit together.
I would have probably played Teague a lot less and probably played Wiggins a bit less as well than what they played and that could be done with a 9 man rotation (more minutes for Tyus). If I'm going to complain about anything with Thibs, it's sticking with Teague as long as he did.
That said, we gotta figure out a way to move Teague and others to free up minutes for Okogie given Thibs isn't going to change...and given several "modern" teams still run 9 deep, the rotation size isn't the issue.
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Post by boognish on Nov 19, 2018 8:10:44 GMT -6
Yesterday Portland played 8 "rotation" guys with 3 guys brought on in garbage time and won. The Lakers played 9 in their rotation (with one garbage time add on) in a win. The Spurs played only 8 guys more than 10 minutes with one garbage time add on in a win. I know everyone's fixated on Thibs playing 9 and complaining about it - here's the thing, three teams generally did that yesterday *and* won. The number of guys you play isn't critical. What matters is *how* they play and fit together. I would have probably played Teague a lot less and probably played Wiggins a bit less as well than what they played and that could be done with a 9 man rotation (more minutes for Tyus). If I'm going to complain about anything with Thibs, it's sticking with Teague as long as he did. That said, we gotta figure out a way to move Teague and others to free up minutes for Okogie given Thibs isn't going to change...and given several "modern" teams still run 9 deep, the rotation size isn't the issue. Thibs did finally sit Teague about halfway through the 3rd quarter and never brought him back in. But I think with the way Gasol was defending the paint, I would have brought in a lineup of AT, KAT, and Saric, to pull the Griz's big guys out of the paint and open up some lanes for Rose, Wigs, and RoCo to attack the basket. But we just kept trying to pound the ball into the post, where Gasol and Co were able to pretty much shut down our offense completely. Our best lineup of the night, statistically, came in the 2nd quarter. It was: Teague, Rose, RoCo, Saric, KAT. They were +4. I think that could be a good starting five for this team, with a bench of Tyus, Okogie, Wigs, Taj, and Gorgi/AT. It gives a little defensive help to our worst defensive players on each squad.
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 19, 2018 9:14:51 GMT -6
Yesterday Portland played 8 "rotation" guys with 3 guys brought on in garbage time and won. The Lakers played 9 in their rotation (with one garbage time add on) in a win. The Spurs played only 8 guys more than 10 minutes with one garbage time add on in a win. I know everyone's fixated on Thibs playing 9 and complaining about it - here's the thing, three teams generally did that yesterday *and* won. The number of guys you play isn't critical. What matters is *how* they play and fit together. I would have probably played Teague a lot less and probably played Wiggins a bit less as well than what they played and that could be done with a 9 man rotation (more minutes for Tyus). If I'm going to complain about anything with Thibs, it's sticking with Teague as long as he did. That said, we gotta figure out a way to move Teague and others to free up minutes for Okogie given Thibs isn't going to change...and given several "modern" teams still run 9 deep, the rotation size isn't the issue. Thibs did finally sit Teague about halfway through the 3rd quarter and never brought him back in. But I think with the way Gasol was defending the paint, I would have brought in a lineup of AT, KAT, and Saric, to pull the Griz's big guys out of the paint and open up some lanes for Rose, Wigs, and RoCo to attack the basket. But we just kept trying to pound the ball into the post, where Gasol and Co were able to pretty much shut down our offense completely. Our best lineup of the night, statistically, came in the 2nd quarter. It was: Teague, Rose, RoCo, Saric, KAT. They were +4. I think that could be a good starting five for this team, with a bench of Tyus, Okogie, Wigs, Taj, and Gorgi/AT. It gives a little defensive help to our worst defensive players on each squad. We're got 3 or 4 guys who don't "fit" the roster very well - Teague, Taj, Dieng, and perhaps Tyus. I'd love to free up some of the logjam on the roster to get a very dependable 9 man rotation with one or two project players that we can plug in when guys get hurt.
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Post by Bonecrusher on Nov 19, 2018 9:44:29 GMT -6
Yesterday Portland played 8 "rotation" guys with 3 guys brought on in garbage time and won. The Lakers played 9 in their rotation (with one garbage time add on) in a win. The Spurs played only 8 guys more than 10 minutes with one garbage time add on in a win. I know everyone's fixated on Thibs playing 9 and complaining about it - here's the thing, three teams generally did that yesterday *and* won. The number of guys you play isn't critical. What matters is *how* they play and fit together. I would have probably played Teague a lot less and probably played Wiggins a bit less as well than what they played and that could be done with a 9 man rotation (more minutes for Tyus). If I'm going to complain about anything with Thibs, it's sticking with Teague as long as he did. That said, we gotta figure out a way to move Teague and others to free up minutes for Okogie given Thibs isn't going to change...and given several "modern" teams still run 9 deep, the rotation size isn't the issue. Thibs did finally sit Teague about halfway through the 3rd quarter and never brought him back in. But I think with the way Gasol was defending the paint, I would have brought in a lineup of AT, KAT, and Saric, to pull the Griz's big guys out of the paint and open up some lanes for Rose, Wigs, and RoCo to attack the basket. But we just kept trying to pound the ball into the post, where Gasol and Co were able to pretty much shut down our offense completely. Our best lineup of the night, statistically, came in the 2nd quarter. It was: Teague, Rose, RoCo, Saric, KAT. They were +4. I think that could be a good starting five for this team, with a bench of Tyus, Okogie, Wigs, Taj, and Gorgi/AT. It gives a little defensive help to our worst defensive players on each squad. Sorry but that lineup would be a disaster. Teague and Rose together would be the worst defensive pairing every in our history. Okogie should be starting and let Rose come in off the bench. But more importantly get Teague off the team. They need to move him or pray he opts out. As for Okogie I would almost consider starting him at the PG to see how he handles that. Wiggins in the SG position, Covington, Saric and KAT.
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Post by levine on Nov 19, 2018 10:09:50 GMT -6
Yesterday Portland played 8 "rotation" guys with 3 guys brought on in garbage time and won. The Lakers played 9 in their rotation (with one garbage time add on) in a win. The Spurs played only 8 guys more than 10 minutes with one garbage time add on in a win. I know everyone's fixated on Thibs playing 9 and complaining about it - here's the thing, three teams generally did that yesterday *and* won. The number of guys you play isn't critical. What matters is *how* they play and fit together. I would have probably played Teague a lot less and probably played Wiggins a bit less as well than what they played and that could be done with a 9 man rotation (more minutes for Tyus). If I'm going to complain about anything with Thibs, it's sticking with Teague as long as he did. That said, we gotta figure out a way to move Teague and others to free up minutes for Okogie given Thibs isn't going to change...and given several "modern" teams still run 9 deep, the rotation size isn't the issue. The difference is those coaches aren't married to their rotations. They'll play 8 or 9 based on performance or injuries, but its not a hard and fast rule for them. And none of those coaches have a problem changing up who is in the rotation on an given night based on match-ups and/or performance. They're basically human beings, while we have a poorly programmed robot.
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 19, 2018 10:51:14 GMT -6
I agree with you on this...but the "we need a bigger rotation for number's sake" that others are grousing for isn't necessarily what a lot of coaches execute. The 9 certainly will change up based on the matchup or health of the roster.
Thibs is going to play 9. And yeah, he should be more flexible...but we all know he won't be. So get 9 good players that fit regardless of him *or* future coach TBD. On that last point, we don't have 9 that completely fit.
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Post by Bonecrusher on Nov 19, 2018 10:51:19 GMT -6
Yesterday Portland played 8 "rotation" guys with 3 guys brought on in garbage time and won. The Lakers played 9 in their rotation (with one garbage time add on) in a win. The Spurs played only 8 guys more than 10 minutes with one garbage time add on in a win. I know everyone's fixated on Thibs playing 9 and complaining about it - here's the thing, three teams generally did that yesterday *and* won. The number of guys you play isn't critical. What matters is *how* they play and fit together. I would have probably played Teague a lot less and probably played Wiggins a bit less as well than what they played and that could be done with a 9 man rotation (more minutes for Tyus). If I'm going to complain about anything with Thibs, it's sticking with Teague as long as he did. That said, we gotta figure out a way to move Teague and others to free up minutes for Okogie given Thibs isn't going to change...and given several "modern" teams still run 9 deep, the rotation size isn't the issue. The difference is those coaches aren't married to their rotations. They'll play 8 or 9 based on performance or injuries, but its not a hard and fast rule for them. And none of those coaches have a problem changing up who is in the rotation on an given night based on match-ups and/or performance. They're basically human beings, while we have a poorly programmed robot. Who supposedly spends all his time studying basketball. SMDH
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Post by levine on Nov 19, 2018 11:16:18 GMT -6
I agree with you on this...but the "we need a bigger rotation for number's sake" that others are grousing for isn't necessarily what a lot of coaches execute. The 9 certainly will change up based on the matchup or health of the roster. Thibs is going to play 9. And yeah, he should be more flexible...but we all know he won't be. So get 9 good players that fit regardless of him *or* future coach TBD. On that last point, we don't have 9 that completely fit. I'm really not that interested in letting the current brain trust make more trades*. We're not making the Playoffs, so let the new guys make the needed changes. At this point if I'm Glen, I fire Thibs, let Ryan be the interim (he's likely to be bad at it, but all I care about is the young guys and the core guys play together as much as possible). *The exception being if Thibs is gone to trade Taj and Rose for any value that doesn't go beyond this year - even if its a weak expiring and a 2nd round pick).
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Post by boognish on Nov 19, 2018 11:28:18 GMT -6
Thibs did finally sit Teague about halfway through the 3rd quarter and never brought him back in. But I think with the way Gasol was defending the paint, I would have brought in a lineup of AT, KAT, and Saric, to pull the Griz's big guys out of the paint and open up some lanes for Rose, Wigs, and RoCo to attack the basket. But we just kept trying to pound the ball into the post, where Gasol and Co were able to pretty much shut down our offense completely. Our best lineup of the night, statistically, came in the 2nd quarter. It was: Teague, Rose, RoCo, Saric, KAT. They were +4. I think that could be a good starting five for this team, with a bench of Tyus, Okogie, Wigs, Taj, and Gorgi/AT. It gives a little defensive help to our worst defensive players on each squad. Sorry but that lineup would be a disaster. Teague and Rose together would be the worst defensive pairing every in our history. Okogie should be starting and let Rose come in off the bench. But more importantly get Teague off the team. They need to move him or pray he opts out. As for Okogie I would almost consider starting him at the PG to see how he handles that. Wiggins in the SG position, Covington, Saric and KAT. Rose has a better defensive rating than Wiggins does, and he has a positive net rating (Wiggins doesn't) which indicates that he's putting more balls in the hoop than he's giving up. Saric is a significantly better defender than Taj according to my eyes and the small statistical sample we've had. Having him and RoCo behind Rose and Teague would make them look a lot better on the defensive end, IMO. Okogie does not have the handles yet to be a PG in this league. Putting him and Wiggins together in the backcourt would be a ball-handling disaster of epic proportions. It would be hilarious though, so I fully endorse that roster move.
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Post by levine on Nov 19, 2018 11:44:54 GMT -6
Sorry but that lineup would be a disaster. Teague and Rose together would be the worst defensive pairing every in our history. Okogie should be starting and let Rose come in off the bench. But more importantly get Teague off the team. They need to move him or pray he opts out. As for Okogie I would almost consider starting him at the PG to see how he handles that. Wiggins in the SG position, Covington, Saric and KAT. Rose has a better defensive rating than Wiggins does, and he has a positive net rating (Wiggins doesn't) which indicates that he's putting more balls in the hoop than he's giving up. Saric is a significantly better defender than Taj according to my eyes and the small statistical sample we've had. Having him and RoCo behind Rose and Teague would make them look a lot better on the defensive end, IMO. Okogie does not have the handles yet to be a PG in this league. Putting him and Wiggins together in the backcourt would be a ball-handling disaster of epic proportions. It would be hilarious though, so I fully endorse that roster move. Defensive rating is a meaningless stat. Its more based on who you're playing with than anything you do yourself. ESPN finally put out RPM numbers for the season. Basically Defensive Rating that takes into account your teammates. Its proven to be a much better indicator of defensive play: D(efensive)RPM: Rose: -2.47 (among all guards, that puts him only ahead of Sexton, Dinwiddie, LaVine and Young) Wiggins: -0.41 Teague: -1.17 Tyus: -0.31 Others: Butler: 0.38 Covington: 3.04 (4th overall in the NBA among ALL positions, and the only non-big in the Top 12) Saric: 0.38 KAT: 0.10 Dieng: 0.39 Okogie: -0.23
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