Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 14:25:59 GMT -6
So he couldn't adapt to a changing environment. It took over a decade for fans and the league to adapt, he was a brand new gm. If he started receiving this heat year three, maybe? This was the second he walked in.
|
|
|
Post by tmill720 on Dec 11, 2023 14:35:37 GMT -6
So he couldn't adapt to a changing environment. It took over a decade for fans and the league to adapt, he was a brand new gm. If he started receiving this heat year three, maybe? This was the second he walked in.We keep circling on this, but again, this is a result of: - No experience - No previous success as an exec - Poor communication on his plan - No stature as a player And he didn't do ANYTHING to dissuade people from piling on. If his '09 draft had worked, people would have stopped. If he charmed the fans and media into believing in our future, people would have stopped. If he had been able to manage Kevin Love (either not letting him get disgruntled, or trading him for a great package), people would have stopped. Sure, it might have been unfair at the start. But he didn't do anything to stop it!
|
|
|
Post by levine on Dec 11, 2023 14:36:20 GMT -6
You're not singling me out. You're "singling" out ALL of us. Or, more bluntly, anyone that doesn't see it your way is a sheep, a fool or both. Almost no fans have this era right, that is correct. There's a handful that are like he wasn't as bad as remembered. But the real bugger is when folks act like Hinkie's Philly thing was this amazing team building experiment, when it was maybe, among the process gm's most similar to Wolves. If Hinkie has the number four pick 2010, maybe he takes Cousins in place of Wes, but then he's got Cousins, process is over, because presumably Cousins would be playing, and he becomes Sacramento. Unless you think he would have the nards to draft Cousins and trade immediately. You just keep making my point over and over. It's like you're blind to your own hubris. You also don't seem at all interested in having a discussion about this topic. You just want to keep screaming into the abyss, while insulting literally everyone else here. Just replace "Wolves fans" with the user name of anyone here and then reread what you've written. Because almost all of us fall into that category based on how you're using it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 14:49:30 GMT -6
No experience is not true, he did have experience with salary cap, and the financials of team building. Not too mention part of why we got him was Penn, and someone else backed out. We are circling back to this idea if Kahn was more affable, he would have been treated nicely. I don't really know what that means. In that Shams piece, they talk about Woj having dinners for his "sources." But Bill, Woj, Ford, Schwartz, and perhaps to a lesser degree Fegan, were the one's in the wrong here. Being a new gm, with few contacts is not a reason to try to end someone's career, let alone the myriad of lines crossed colluding to tank someone, or get your guy to another team. Even that Love interview, he's a 20 some year old kid, if Schwartz and Woj are telling him to do this, he wouldn't know any better, or why it's a huge (I have a potty mouth)ing deal. We keep circling on this, but again, this is a result of: - No experience - No previous success as an exec - Poor communication on his plan - No stature as a player And he didn't do ANYTHING to dissuade people from piling on. If his '09 draft had worked, people would have stopped. If he charmed the fans and media into believing in our future, people would have stopped. If he had been able to manage Kevin Love (either not letting him get disgruntled, or trading him for a great package), people would have stopped. Sure, it might have been unfair at the start. But he didn't do anything to stop it!
|
|
|
Post by levine on Dec 11, 2023 14:52:09 GMT -6
Not too mention part of why we got him was Penn, and someone else backed out. We got him because he was a friend's of Stern's and he strongly "recommended" Glen hire him after Taylor scared off every real candidate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 14:57:28 GMT -6
You just keep making my point over and over. It's like you're blind to your own hubris.You also don't seem at all interested in having a discussion about this topic. You just want to keep screaming into the abyss, while insulting literally everyone else here. Just replace "Wolves fans" with the user name of anyone here and then reread what you've written. Because almost all of us fall into that category based on how you're using it. Little bit of a beholder thing, I mean I'm insulted as much as anyone here, but as long as it's in good fun, and not personal. We can have a convo about who we would have drafted, more than fair. But the reason I am on this is because it is true, and most Wolves fans, let alone The Horde do not know the agenda, and intent behind how that team was covered. That's why I began the thread, and am going to push back when I can. Also to be honest I think the idea of it is more relevant to today's NBA than I would have thought it was initially. Again the heat we took on that Rudy trade was a great example, and the fact that it was rarely made personal, or even named Tim Connelly. Maybe you didn't think the free agents were good, I think they were solid given our market at that time. As for comments like Beasley smoking too much weed, or Flynn and Rubio could play together, if you see those through the filter we were given, you tend to put them in the he stinks category, but the reality is neither in a vacuum are anything. If Wolves had just been ignored, like Utah mostly was at the same time, they're non stories, and no one thinks twice about them. One time Brad Childress was asked if Brett Farve was going to play or something, and he said he moves better than an Iron Deer. Without the negative hammering that's what that is. A bizarre, but uneventful comment.
|
|
|
Post by tmill720 on Dec 11, 2023 14:57:42 GMT -6
THIS IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. Look at this article from Marc Stein circa 2014. You can't make it up LOL
Kevin Love likes Warriors, Bulls Marc Stein Ramona Shelburne May 18, 2014, 11:17 AM ET
Kevin Love has made it clear to the Timberwolves that he intends to become an unrestricted free agent after next season and has no interest in a contract extension to stay in Minnesota, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.
Although sources say Love has stopped short of demanding a trade, his position could effectively force the Timberwolves to deal the All-Star forward before next season -- or before the trade deadline in February 2015 at the latest -- if they hope to dodge the risk of losing him without compensation.
Teams around the league are increasingly expected to test that resolve once the lottery order is established, and The Associated Press reports that amid growing concern, that stance has softened somewhat.
Two sources told the AP that the likely asking price would include a high first-round pick in this year's draft and a veteran or two who could bring immediate leadership to a team that lacks it.
|
|
|
Post by tmill720 on Dec 11, 2023 14:58:38 GMT -6
You just keep making my point over and over. It's like you're blind to your own hubris.You also don't seem at all interested in having a discussion about this topic. You just want to keep screaming into the abyss, while insulting literally everyone else here. Just replace "Wolves fans" with the user name of anyone here and then reread what you've written. Because almost all of us fall into that category based on how you're using it. Little bit of a beholder thing, I mean I'm insulted as much as anyone here, but as long as it's in good fun, and not personal. We can have a convo about who we would have drafted, more than fair. But the reason I am on this is because it is true, and most Wolves fans, let alone The Horde do not know the agenda, and intent behind how that team was covered. That's why I began the tread, and am going to push back. Maybe you didn't think the free agents were good, I think they were solid given our market at that time. As for comments like Beasley smoking too much weed, or Flynn and Rubio could play together, if you see those through the filter we were given, you tend to put them in the he stinks category, but the reality is neither in a vacuum are anything. If Wolves had just been ignored, like Utah mostly was at the same time, they're non stories, and no one thinks twice about them.One time Brad Childress was asked if Brett Farve was going to play or something, and he said he moves better than an Iron Deer. Without the negative hammering that's what that is. A bizarre, but uneventful comment. Ah if only people had not asked Kahn to do basic parts of his job. But alas!
|
|
|
Post by tmill720 on Dec 11, 2023 15:00:16 GMT -6
You just keep making my point over and over. It's like you're blind to your own hubris.You also don't seem at all interested in having a discussion about this topic. You just want to keep screaming into the abyss, while insulting literally everyone else here. Just replace "Wolves fans" with the user name of anyone here and then reread what you've written. Because almost all of us fall into that category based on how you're using it. Little bit of a beholder thing, I mean I'm insulted as much as anyone here, but as long as it's in good fun, and not personal. We can have a convo about who we would have drafted, more than fair. But the reason I am on this is because it is true, and most Wolves fans, let alone The Horde do not know the agenda, and intent behind how that team was covered. That's why I began the tread, and am going to push back. Maybe you didn't think the free agents were good, I think they were solid given our market at that time. As for comments like Beasley smoking too much weed, or Flynn and Rubio could play together, if you see those through the filter we were given, you tend to put them in the he stinks category, but the reality is neither in a vacuum are anything. If Wolves had just been ignored, like Utah mostly was at the same time, they're non stories, and no one thinks twice about them. One time Brad Childress was asked if Brett Farve was going to play or something, and he said he moves better than an Iron Deer. Without the negative hammering that's what that is. A bizarre, but uneventful comment. Your perceived intent behind the Kahn hate is not a fact. That's where the disconnect is. If you treated our opinions of how he was covered respectfully, we would treat yours more respectfully.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:03:03 GMT -6
THIS IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. Look at this article from Marc Stein circa 2014. You can't make it up LOL Kevin Love likes Warriors, Bulls Marc Stein Ramona Shelburne May 18, 2014, 11:17 AM ET Kevin Love has made it clear to the Timberwolves that he intends to become an unrestricted free agent after next season and has no interest in a contract extension to stay in Minnesota, according to sources with knowledge of the situation. Although sources say Love has stopped short of demanding a trade, his position could effectively force the Timberwolves to deal the All-Star forward before next season -- or before the trade deadline in February 2015 at the latest -- if they hope to dodge the risk of losing him without compensation. Teams around the league are increasingly expected to test that resolve once the lottery order is established, and The Associated Press reports that amid growing concern, that stance has softened somewhat. Two sources told the AP that the likely asking price would include a high first-round pick in this year's draft and a veteran or two who could bring immediate leadership to a team that lacks it. You should clarify what your implying here.
|
|
|
Post by levine on Dec 11, 2023 15:05:10 GMT -6
Little bit of a beholder thing, I mean I'm insulted as much as anyone here, but as long as it's in good fun, and not personal. We can have a convo about who we would have drafted, more than fair. But the reason I am on this is because it is true, and most Wolves fans, let alone The Horde do not know the agenda, and intent behind how that team was covered. That's why I began the tread, and am going to push back. Maybe you didn't think the free agents were good, I think they were solid given our market at that time. As for comments like Beasley smoking too much weed, or Flynn and Rubio could play together, if you see those through the filter we were given, you tend to put them in the he stinks category, but the reality is neither in a vacuum are anything. If Wolves had just been ignored, like Utah mostly was at the same time, they're non stories, and no one thinks twice about them. One time Brad Childress was asked if Brett Farve was going to play or something, and he said he moves better than an Iron Deer. Without the negative hammering that's what that is. A bizarre, but uneventful comment. Your perceived intent behind the Kahn hate is not a fact. That's where the disconnect is. If you treated our opinions of how he was covered respectfully, we would treat yours more respectfully. Exactly. If you feel you're being insulted, its because its in response of how you talk about the rest of us. We're all wrong because none of us believe YOUR truth. I don't see how "it's all in good fun" when you paint us all as sheep at best, idiots at worst. Are you really so arrogant that you believe, among all Wolves fandom, that only you know the truth?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:05:22 GMT -6
Ah if only people had not asked Kahn to do basic parts of his job. But alas! None of this is a story, if not for how your hero's frame it. The Beasley thing was funny, and btw pretty frank. I never saw a problem in it, and it's even less so today. Beasley and Kahn would be live streaming bong hits in 2023.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:14:26 GMT -6
Are you really so arrogant that you believe, among all Wolves fandom, that only you know the truth? IMHO, it doesn't bother me as much, because after you've read this thread, it's very tough to dispute. This thread could not have existed ten years ago, without a decade of 100 process teams since. I would have told you the same thing about the difference in coverage between Kahn and Hinkie then, but it's more helpful to see when you have multiple examples like Presti, like Utah, like Prosas. If what I am pointing out had no basis, I don't think we have 14 pages here. I would just say that if I were a diehard believer in Woj, or Simmons, and someone pointed me to this, I also, would not like it. Who are you going to believe me or HTB?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:15:49 GMT -6
Your perceived intent behind the Kahn hate is not a fact. The intent behind the hate, whatever. But where has anything like that happened since? Really intent you'd have to ask Bill and Woj why they worked so hard on behalf of Morey and Schwartz, we could ask them?
|
|
|
Post by tmill720 on Dec 11, 2023 15:17:22 GMT -6
Ah if only people had not asked Kahn to do basic parts of his job. But alas! None of this is a story, if not for how your hero's frame it. The Beasley thing was funny, and btw pretty frank. I never saw a problem in it, and it's even less so today. Beasley and Kahn would be live streaming bong hits in 2023. This kind of crap is what Levine is talking about. I'm not saying that I love Bill Simmons and he's infallible. I'm looking at this situation from a neutral party - Simmons used his contacts to further his career. Morey used his contacts to provide himself cover and extend his career. Are either of these things morally sound? No, but it seems like they were playing chess while Kahn was playing checkers, and then you complaining that Simmons/Morey were able to move in a direction other than diagonal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:20:59 GMT -6
One thing that might spice this up though is for a writer, who maybe doesn't have the strings of needing to maintain certain relationships a beat might, would be to finally put in black and white print, the real story of how Kevin Love broke his hand. Not sugar coated, not downplayed, not through any lense, other than what happened, and then of course we all know how it was covered.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:21:50 GMT -6
This kind of crap is what Levine is talking about. I'm not saying that I love Bill Simmons and he's infallible. I'm looking at this situation from a neutral party - Simmons used his contacts to further his career. Morey used his contacts to provide himself cover and extend his career. Are either of these things morally sound? No, but it seems like they were playing chess while Kahn was playing checkers, and then you complaining that Simmons/Morey were able to move in a direction other than diagonal. More like 4-D checkers.
|
|
|
Post by levine on Dec 11, 2023 15:22:08 GMT -6
IMHO, it doesn't bother me as much, because after you've read this thread, it's very tough to dispute. Quantity does not equal quality. You can not will something into existence just by covering your ears and shouting it ad nauseam.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:27:09 GMT -6
Quantity does not equal quality. Don't disagree. Like if you have four pop tarts it doesn't suddenly become a waffle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:31:46 GMT -6
Wolves blog is about hard truths.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:57:26 GMT -6
Your perceived intent behind the Kahn hate is not a fact. The intent behind the hate, whatever. But where has anything like that happened since? Really intent you'd have to ask Bill and Woj why they worked so hard on behalf of Morey and Schwartz, we could ask them? Funny enough there was a BS where HTB asks Ford this very question. Ford basically says information. For example when approaching a draft, one thing that's valuable to a team is knowing who other teams are interested in, or taking. Teams tell him stuff, in hopes he will give them intel. What was not discussed, was it's the same thing Bill was doing, and Woj, nor, the red line of, what happens when that reporter uses that information to favor certain gm's, and not others, and why it would be considered a big, big flag in journalism, and something a serious news has to weed out. Both worked for ESPN at the time, which again, didn't know, but also likely doesn't care as long as their getting hits, and what's better for clickbate than "insider" info. My sources are telling me "Kahn is shopping Jefferson," at a time when leaking was new. Overall I'd say that type of leak rarely happens now, and gm's tend to work together more. For example the keeping trades open for other teams to hop into, was really rare, but back then teams might do it, take back bad contract for a pick, or like DK, jumping in that Melo deal to nab Randolph.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:57:54 GMT -6
This was all discovered in doing my own research for my new novel titled, "The Aggrieved: One man or bot's Wrath against The Horde."
Or "Shock-a-Kahn: Disturbing new insight into the Rise of Morey Media, and the forces behind it."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 15:44:52 GMT -6
DK = The Processing GOAT! www.cbssports.com/nba/news/blazers-retain-nicolas-batum-after-matching-timberwolves-offer-sheet/Blazers retain Nicolas Batum after matchingTimberwolves' offer sheetOlshey did his best to move past what was an ugly few weeks of negotiations. The acrimony began back in January -- well before Olshey was hired in June -- when the Blazers and Batum were unable to reach agreement on a contract extension. Batum's agent, Bouna Ndiaye, voiced displeasure in the media, saying that the Blazers "low-balled" his client and promising to court outside offers rather than negotiate a new contract directly with the Blazers. That noise grew louder during the summer, when both Ndiaye and Batum went public with Batum's desire to play for the Timberwolves. Minnesota, for its part, pulled out all the stops, waiving Webster, using the amnesty clause on Darko Milicic and trading Brad Miller in order to clear maximum salary cap room to make the big-dollar offer to Batum. Timberwolves ownership and management met with Batum when free agency opened, selling him on playing for coach Rick Adelman in a motion offense and playing alongside Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio.
The circumstances didn't play well among fans in Portland, where loyalty is a precious commodity. While Olshey admitted on Wednesday that the Blazers and Timberwolves did broach sign-and-trade discussions, he said that Batum's public posturing was a different song than what he was singing behind closed doors.
"Nic made a couple of comments at the behest of the Minnesota Timberwolves and his agent," Olshey said. "That was their agenda, it was never Nicolas's agenda."
"He always wanted to be back in Portland," Olshey continued. "I think he would have liked to have done the deal straight up just like I would have. But he listened to his representative and that's his prerogative. His representative did a great job. He got him a hell of a deal."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 16:33:06 GMT -6
We were told he would never play here, because they were trying to blow it up out the gate. The reality is the contract, and drafting 5th was why he was delayed, which you would have known if you listened to Kahn versus HTB. I think the key to being an NBA pundit is just be as wrong as possible all the time, and then troll *anyone pick a name out of a hat. For the record I still believe he never came over, and lived my whole life as if it were so because I have no brain, and that's what I was told. www.mprnews.org/story/2011/06/17/rubio-timberwolvesRicky Rubio confirms he's joining TimberwolvesThe Timberwolves chose Rubio with the No. 5 pick in the 2009 NBA draft, but his $6 million buyout clause at Barcelona - of which an NBA team could pay only $500,000 under league rules - made him stay in Spain until it came down to a more manageable $1.4 million. ...Many NBA observers thought this day would never come, speculating that Rubio would try to force his way out of small-market Minnesota to play for a higher profile franchise in a bigger city. But Timberwolves president David Kahn stayed patient, never pressuring the precocious teenager and delicately negotiating until Rubio made the decision that he was ready to come to the United States.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2023 10:30:47 GMT -6
Warriors DID NOT MOVE DOWN to get Haliburton because they had top three, because it is a huge risk to move out of a top ten spot, to slide back on a guy. Which is why Hinkie, and Kahn both did not either. Moving from like 18 into 20's is not the same risk at all.
It was in a private gym, set up just for this because the Warriors held the No. 2 pick in the draft and had Haliburton on the shortlist. And Haliburton let himself ponder the possibility, just a little bit, of landing with a team that had Stephen Curry and won three of the previous six championships. “Yeah, I did,” Haliburton told me in a phone interview this week. “I was disappointed that they (had) the No. 2 pick because I felt like if they were anywhere out of the top three, I felt like I was going to be the pick.” – via Tim Kawakami @ The Athletic
|
|