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Post by levine on Sept 15, 2022 9:25:22 GMT -6
Ultimately my take is less about Kahn, and more about how two petty writers successfully killed what should have been and incredibly fun, interesting decade of Wolves basketball. I think this is where we differ the most. What Kahn did was neither interesting or fun. And that's on him, not your scapegoat writers.
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 9:26:35 GMT -6
Kahn’s was more creative. The biggest difference is Hinkie branded his the process, which was language Presti used during OKC’s first stint. That only worked because of the media that backed him as a great signing/hire. He was gifted a runway, as well as players understanding what was going on there in Philly, oppose to headlines like “Are the Wolves the dumbest team of all-time?” And so nearly every move he made was viewed as an asset, oppose to yeah that’s just a second round pick, or that’s actually TJ McConnell. It was smart to brand it that way, but it worked because he received glowing pub. As it went on, I think both players and fans were like eventually we should try to win right? A big reason Thad Young did not want to stick here in Minny during the Towns tank was because he just spent several years doing it in Philly. How weird would it be to be an NBA player to travel, play all these games, knowing your being set up to lose? I mean maybe you’re auditioning for other teams but still team building, and basketball is a different game to asset collecting his closet surrounded by spread sheets. And teams had tanked, but until Presti it was never for multiple seasons. The unique thing with Hinkie compared to Presti is he was taking Noel, Embiid, Saric, all guys they had to wait on, versus Presti landing KD, Westbrook, Harden. If Rubio, Calathes, and Bjelica we’re all drafted by Hinkie those dudes in his bag would have talked about how brilliant it was to collect assets. June 24, 2010: Selected Wesley Johnson (1st round, 4th pick), Luke Babbitt (1st round, 16th pick), Trevor Booker (1st round, 23rd pick), Paulão Prestes (2nd round, 45th pick) and Hamady N'Diaye (2nd round, 56th pick) in the 2010 NBA Draft. - No hits in the 2010 draft June 23, 2011: Selected Derrick Williams (1st round, 2nd pick) and Donatas Motiejūnas (1st round, 20th pick) in the 2011 NBA Draft. June 23, 2011: Traded Jonny Flynn, Donatas Motiejūnas and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Will Barton was later selected) to the Houston Rockets for Brad Miller, Nikola Mirotić, Chandler Parsons and a 2013 1st round draft pick (Andre Roberson was later selected). June 23, 2011: Traded Nikola Mirotić to the Chicago Bulls for Norris Cole, Malcolm Lee and cash. June 23, 2011: Traded Norris Cole to the Miami Heat for Bojan Bogdanović. June 23, 2011: Traded Bojan Bogdanović to the New Jersey Nets for cash and a 2013 2nd round draft pick (Lorenzo Brown was later selected). June 23, 2011: Traded Chandler Parsons to the Houston Rockets for cash. Just look at this string of transactions in the offseason 2011. Kahn drafted Derrick Williams (obviously didn't work out, but yeah the draft can be a crapshoot sometimes). Then, at one point on that day, had the rights to Nikola Mirotic, Chandler Parsons, Bojan Bogdanovic, Norris Cole, and Brad Miller.... yet the only guy he decided to keep was Brad Miller? - Also, no hits in the 2011 draft. If we are in asset accumulation mode like Hinkie, why did he do these transactions in 2012? June 26, 2012: Traded a 2012 1st round draft pick (Terrence Jones was later selected) to the Houston Rockets for Chase Budinger and Lior Eliyahu. June 28, 2012: Selected Robbie Hummel (2nd round, 58th pick) in the 2012 NBA Draft. July 13, 2012: Traded Brad Miller, a 2013 2nd round draft pick (Lorenzo Brown was later selected) and a 2016 2nd round draft pick (Rade Zagorac was later selected) to the New Orleans Hornets for a 2017 2nd round draft pick. Conditional 2017 2nd-rd pick did not convey I tried to account for all of the deals he made on BBall reference, and I had it as a net gain of 3 1sts by trading Al Jefferson, Randy Foye, and Mike Miller, while ending up giving out a net 2 2nds. I'm not going to go through all of Hinkie's deals, but again, Kahn was not doing the same "asset accumulation" like Hinkie was. It's not just petty writers crafting a narrative about how bad he was... he actually was bad, and they wrote about that! His process may have been similar to Hinkie in that they were both bad for a bit, he just did not do it as well or as significantly. He was. Young players and assets. Just no one called Rubio, Beasley, Randolph or Bjelica an asset. The Adelman stuff was bad because it does appear he was selling picks for cash on the Rambis buyout, did Saunders just get bought out straight up? All the mixing and trading seconds is pointless, but the idea of trying out Sessions, Hollins, Randolph, Beasley, Darko, Koufos, Johnson, Ellington, Flynn, Barea, Ridnour, Pek, Love, Rubio, Kirilenko, was underrated creative strategy for a market and team that could not attract anyone. You’re correct Hinkie’s was different because he took a bunch of dudes that couldn’t play for a year, or more (see how Rubio was covered comparatively). But this idea he was building a war chest of assets is nuts. I see a lot of fair, to out of the league rotation guys, and Joel Embiid who miraculously stayed healthy.
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Post by levine on Sept 15, 2022 9:26:48 GMT -6
Just look at this string of transactions in the offseason 2011. Kahn drafted Derrick Williams (obviously didn't work out, but yeah the draft can be a crapshoot sometimes). Then, at one point on that day, had the rights to Nikola Mirotic, Chandler Parsons, Bojan Bogdanovic, Norris Cole, and Brad Miller.... yet the only guy he decided to keep was Brad Miller? - Also, no hits in the 2011 draft. Wasn't this the draft where he was required by Taylor to make enough money to pay for Rambis' buy out? The very draft that they literally changed the rules about including cash in trades because of what we did?
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 9:31:57 GMT -6
Just look at this string of transactions in the offseason 2011. Kahn drafted Derrick Williams (obviously didn't work out, but yeah the draft can be a crapshoot sometimes). Then, at one point on that day, had the rights to Nikola Mirotic, Chandler Parsons, Bojan Bogdanovic, Norris Cole, and Brad Miller.... yet the only guy he decided to keep was Brad Miller? - Also, no hits in the 2011 draft. Wasn't this the draft where he was required by Taylor to make enough money to pay for Rambis' buy out? The very draft that they literally changed the rules about including cash in trades because of what we did? Yes, it was. Most of these to America’s hero Egg and amounted to nothing. I mean Doc Rivers was traded at one point. I think most would accept the deal of a bunch of seconds for Adelman at the time.
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 9:49:29 GMT -6
Some of this still applies to today, if you remove Kahn and Wolves, listen to how they talk about teams assets for teams they work for or like, versus a team they’re not connected to.
The sustained attacks were unique but whether or not a player, pick or whatever is considered an “asset” often depends on if it’s one of their teams.
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Post by levine on Sept 15, 2022 10:19:41 GMT -6
Yes, it was. Most of these to America’s hero Egg and amounted to nothing. And yet most of them had better NBA careers than the players you pine for from back in the day...
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 10:22:46 GMT -6
Like Montiejunas and Kendall Marshall.
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 10:27:46 GMT -6
Cole, Miritic, Parsons, way way way better than rotation NBA guys.
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Post by levine on Sept 15, 2022 10:27:48 GMT -6
Like Montiejunas and Kendall Marshall. Nikola Mirotic, Chandler Parsons, Bojan Bogdanovic...
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 10:30:17 GMT -6
Right Kahn could have taken Bojan and it would have been covered correctly.
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Post by levine on Sept 15, 2022 10:32:35 GMT -6
Right Kahn could have taken Bojan and it would have been covered correctly. You really think if he came out of the draft with Nikola Mirotic, Chandler Parsons and Bojan Bogdanovic that there would've been a hit job on him by the scribes?
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Post by tmill720 on Sept 15, 2022 10:34:23 GMT -6
Some of this still applies to today, if you remove Kahn and Wolves, listen to how they talk about teams assets for teams they work for or like, versus a team they’re not connected to. The sustained attacks were unique but whether or not a player, pick or whatever is considered an “asset” often depends on if it’s one of their teams.How do the writers decide who is "one of their teams?" They spin their news releases based on the information they've been given. Look at how much blowback Schefter has gotten for obvious skewed reporting in some of his tweets. But the reason he has a job, and is the most notable NFL reporter, is because he gives skewed reporting in return for being able to be the first person to report. If Kahn had been a smart GM like Hinkie or Presti, he would know that and leak out that information early to give the media the spin he wanted. But now we are getting onto another area he was bad in - not only drafting, not only trading/player acquisition, not only player development, but also handling the media. Whether you like it or not, damage control/spin is a major part of being a GM. If he had tried to work with Woj et al, then maybe they wouldn't have had the skewed narrative you're conspiring about. So is that Woj's fault? Or Kahn's fault?
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 10:37:36 GMT -6
Right Kahn could have taken Bojan and it would have been covered correctly. You really think if he came out of the draft with Nikola Mirotic, Chandler Parsons and Bojan Bogdanovic that there would've been a hit job on him by the scribes? Yes, based on how Rubio and Bjelica were covered. I don’t know why one would expect differently. A the idiotic win now pressure Wolves for some reason are the only team in this group that had.
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Post by levine on Sept 15, 2022 10:37:53 GMT -6
I'll admit Kahn was an easy target.
He was really bad at his job, he said preposterous things and he had an overinflated sense of self.
He was covered correctly...
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Post by levine on Sept 15, 2022 10:40:07 GMT -6
Bjelica was a marginal prospect at the time that many didn't think would ever play in the NBA.
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 10:49:22 GMT -6
Some of this still applies to today, if you remove Kahn and Wolves, listen to how they talk about teams assets for teams they work for or like, versus a team they’re not connected to. The sustained attacks were unique but whether or not a player, pick or whatever is considered an “asset” often depends on if it’s one of their teams.How do the writers decide who is "one of their teams?" They spin their news releases based on the information they've been given. Look at how much blowback Schefter has gotten for obvious skewed reporting in some of his tweets. But the reason he has a job, and is the most notable NFL reporter, is because he gives skewed reporting in return for being able to be the first person to report. If Kahn had been a smart GM like Hinkie or Presti, he would know that and leak out that information early to give the media the spin he wanted. But now we are getting onto another area he was bad in - not only drafting, not only trading/player acquisition, not only player development, but also handling the media. Whether you like it or not, damage control/spin is a major part of being a GM. If he had tried to work with Woj et al, then maybe they wouldn't have had the skewed narrative you're conspiring about. So is that Woj's fault? Or Kahn's fault? He tried. A lot of the critique Simmons was stuff Morey was getting, and he absolutely was pumping him up at this time. Woj was kind of a product of Twitter, so in part I think you could say he was trolling to the top, but Morey very clearly was one of his nerds that had him shaping the Kahn hits. Morey’s best skill was leaking stuff to the media, and twerps like Woj were happy to do it, and were largely rewarded. Morey’s daughter did a short Woj Bomb doc for school, documenting the dumbest most over hyped phenomenon’s in internet history. Leaking a story three hours before it’s announced. I mean how is that different than just the NBA official transaction report. BTW fans and media seem to be hip to this now. I think HTB somehow thinks he wasn’t doing this. A product of access journalism, and I wouldn’t call any of what Woj and Simmons were doing then journalism as much as team spin/PR. I don’t know if they always knew it though. Truly cannot believe Woj is employed based on his work. How they met? Maybe they dated the same cousin or something.
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 10:52:02 GMT -6
I started running out of yarn at this point, so I haven’t been able to pin point where their cute might have occurred.
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 10:58:32 GMT -6
I get people want to think what they heard was sound, but go back and listen to those old BS shows, read Woj’s pieces.
That Love one given the timing and context is one of the most egregious things I’ve ever read in sports media. He should not have been employed, you can’t do a piece on behalf of a player or agent even that gm is your arch nemesis.
Zero chance it could happen today without the league stepping in.
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Post by tmill720 on Sept 15, 2022 11:06:38 GMT -6
I get people want to think what they heard was sound, but go back and listen to those old BS shows, read Woj’s pieces. That Love one given the timing and context is one of the most egregious things I’ve ever read in sports media. He should not have been employed, you can’t do a piece on behalf of a player or agent even that gm is your arch nemesis. Zero chance it could happen today without the league stepping in.LOL remember this? www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/10/11/17963746/jimmy-butler-interview-espn-rachel-nichols-timberwolves
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 11:07:23 GMT -6
The Adelman hiring piece he did is even more insane, but I still think the Love one was more over the line.
So Love has to sit the year after lying about breaking his hand, and trashing his teammates. Love should have been killed there, Woj, and Schwartz. It is still unbelievable to me this could not only happen but it kind of put him in the map, and made his career essentially.
If your new to sports media the lesson is pick a target, do a lot of public trolling, and then effectively pr for teams or gm’s you want to hang out with.
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 11:08:57 GMT -6
I get people want to think what they heard was sound, but go back and listen to those old BS shows, read Woj’s pieces. That Love one given the timing and context is one of the most egregious things I’ve ever read in sports media. He should not have been employed, you can’t do a piece on behalf of a player or agent even that gm is your arch nemesis. Zero chance it could happen today without the league stepping in.LOL remember this? www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/10/11/17963746/jimmy-butler-interview-espn-rachel-nichols-timberwolvesNot even remotely the same. Was Nichols writing pieces about how Thibs was and idiot and Towns should leave?
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Post by tmill720 on Sept 15, 2022 11:12:22 GMT -6
How do the writers decide who is "one of their teams?" They spin their news releases based on the information they've been given. Look at how much blowback Schefter has gotten for obvious skewed reporting in some of his tweets. But the reason he has a job, and is the most notable NFL reporter, is because he gives skewed reporting in return for being able to be the first person to report. If Kahn had been a smart GM like Hinkie or Presti, he would know that and leak out that information early to give the media the spin he wanted. But now we are getting onto another area he was bad in - not only drafting, not only trading/player acquisition, not only player development, but also handling the media. Whether you like it or not, damage control/spin is a major part of being a GM. If he had tried to work with Woj et al, then maybe they wouldn't have had the skewed narrative you're conspiring about. So is that Woj's fault? Or Kahn's fault? He tried. A lot of the critique Simmons was stuff Morey was getting, and he absolutely was pumping him up at this time. Woj was kind of a product of Twitter, so in part I think you could say he was trolling to the top, but Morey very clearly was one of his nerds that had him shaping the Kahn hits. Morey’s best skill was leaking stuff to the media, and twerps like Woj were happy to do it, and were largely rewarded. Morey’s daughter did a short Woj Bomb doc for school, documenting the dumbest most over hyped phenomenon’s in internet history. Leaking a story three hours before it’s announced. I mean how is that different than just the NBA official transaction report. BTW fans and media seem to be hip to this now. I think HTB somehow thinks he wasn’t doing this. A product of access journalism, and I wouldn’t call any of what Woj and Simmons were doing then journalism. Truly cannot believe Woj is employed based on his work. How they met? Maybe they dated the same cousin or something. You can keep crafting whatever narrative you want, but Woj is actually a good reporter: Wojnarowski began his career working for the Hartford Courant starting as a high school senior and continuing during breaks from college. After graduating from college, he wrote for some smaller papers before becoming a columnist for the Fresno Bee in 1995. In 1997, he started working for The Record in New Jersey. As a result of his work with The Record, he was named "Columnist of the Year" in 1997 and 2002 by the Associated Press Sports Editors. During this time, he also contributed regularly to ESPN.com. In 2006, he published a New York Times best-seller: The Miracle of St. Anthony: A Season with Coach Bob Hurley and Basketball's Most Improbable Dynasty.
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 11:16:02 GMT -6
He tried. A lot of the critique Simmons was stuff Morey was getting, and he absolutely was pumping him up at this time. Woj was kind of a product of Twitter, so in part I think you could say he was trolling to the top, but Morey very clearly was one of his nerds that had him shaping the Kahn hits. Morey’s best skill was leaking stuff to the media, and twerps like Woj were happy to do it, and were largely rewarded. Morey’s daughter did a short Woj Bomb doc for school, documenting the dumbest most over hyped phenomenon’s in internet history. Leaking a story three hours before it’s announced. I mean how is that different than just the NBA official transaction report. BTW fans and media seem to be hip to this now. I think HTB somehow thinks he wasn’t doing this. A product of access journalism, and I wouldn’t call any of what Woj and Simmons were doing then journalism. Truly cannot believe Woj is employed based on his work. How they met? Maybe they dated the same cousin or something. You can keep crafting whatever narrative you want, but Woj is actually a good reporter: Wojnarowski began his career working for the Hartford Courant starting as a high school senior and continuing during breaks from college. After graduating from college, he wrote for some smaller papers before becoming a columnist for the Fresno Bee in 1995. In 1997, he started working for The Record in New Jersey. As a result of his work with The Record, he was named "Columnist of the Year" in 1997 and 2002 by the Associated Press Sports Editors. During this time, he also contributed regularly to ESPN.com. In 2006, he published a New York Times best-seller: The Miracle of St. Anthony: A Season with Coach Bob Hurley and Basketball's Most Improbable Dynasty. 😂 I get it. He’s revered but what he was doing here is indefensible if you are a reporter. His tactics to make a name for himself are closer to propaganda, and spin than legit reporting. He may have went to school for whatever, I am commenting on what he actually spent his career doing. If doing work on behalf of an agent or player is the gig, sign me up. I’ll interview D-Lo! Help him get his next deal, and then I can hang out with him later at the roller rink.
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Post by tmill720 on Sept 15, 2022 11:25:16 GMT -6
You can keep crafting whatever narrative you want, but Woj is actually a good reporter: Wojnarowski began his career working for the Hartford Courant starting as a high school senior and continuing during breaks from college. After graduating from college, he wrote for some smaller papers before becoming a columnist for the Fresno Bee in 1995. In 1997, he started working for The Record in New Jersey. As a result of his work with The Record, he was named "Columnist of the Year" in 1997 and 2002 by the Associated Press Sports Editors. During this time, he also contributed regularly to ESPN.com. In 2006, he published a New York Times best-seller: The Miracle of St. Anthony: A Season with Coach Bob Hurley and Basketball's Most Improbable Dynasty. 😂 I get it. He’s revered but what he was doing here is indefensible if you are a reporter. His tactics to make a name for himself are closer to propaganda, and spin than legit reporting. He may have went to school for whatever, I am commenting on what he actually spent his career doing. If doing work on behalf of an agent or player is the gig, sign me up. I’ll interview D-Lo! Help him get his next deal, and then I can hang out with him later at the roller rink. That's exactly what the job is! And 29 GMs know that, and actively use that to their advantage. Kahn did not. That's not a negative on the writers, that's a negative on Kahn for not crafting those relationships.
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Post by darko on Sept 15, 2022 11:26:13 GMT -6
I’m trying to link the police sketch for the Zodiac.
Woj is for sure a serial killer. According to my sources.
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