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Post by jojo on Mar 14, 2024 15:21:33 GMT -6
If I’m trading KAT I’m looking for a great shooter plus picks. The main reason to trade him is salary relief, but replacing his shooting is the hardest thing. They can find another rotation big man on affordable contract.
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Post by wunderwolf on Mar 14, 2024 15:47:51 GMT -6
I think they have found that this roster formula works (Ant + (KAT paired w/ a true defensive/rebounding center)); And when Gobert gets too old to be valuable, then you replace him with a rim protector/rebounder type (even if they are not as good as him, the format of a rim protector/rebounder with KAT works).
Thus, keep KAT unless there is an obvious good trade for him.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Mar 15, 2024 8:02:57 GMT -6
Yep I'm completely against trading KAT for Trae. Let the Lakers have him and live and die by him. He'd fit there a lot better than here. I don't know if there's a player out there that I'd trade KAT for right now. I hate the thought of turning a dollar into 2 half dollars. I heard once that 2 nickels ain't the same as one dime and I think that there's really no reason to trade KAT right now. They've committed to the tax and you're really not going to get a better player if you trade KAT. We've been at the top of a loaded West all year. The construction works well enough to win. If it doesn't win in the playoffs, that's a different story. Then you can talk about shuffling the deck a bit. But until then, I like where we're at with the roster. I don't think there's a KAT trade out there that makes sense either. It's really too bad that KAT got hurt as it's quite possible that this year will be our best chance to win. Our depth is only going to get whittled away going forward. Kyle, Morris, and JMac aren't all going to be back (if any) and Conley and Rudy get another year older. After next year, we likely won't be able to keep both Naz and NAW (or either). That's the problem for a team that is overpaying for their biggest salaried players. The other problem is structural. As you said, we've been good this year, but do we really think we can go deep with an offense that not even top half in the league? KAT can't play the 5 on a respectable D, but as a 4, we're not good enough on offense.
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Post by kingsxman on Mar 15, 2024 12:03:47 GMT -6
I agree with this. I want nothing to do with Trae Young. If ever there was a guy who was all stats and no substance....I think its Trae Young. If I'm trading KAT, I'm trying to take a dollar and turn it into 4 quarters (or at least 2-50 cent peices...if anyone remembers those!) I love Kat the person and for the most part...Kat the player. But he's simply not worth 50 million. I'd rather see that money get split into 2 25 million dollar players (PG and shooter or another 4 that can shoot) and go that route. If I were to do a one for one swap it'd be for a PG but would NOT be for Trae Young. And unfortunately, I think Kat had built up his value a bit...but this injury probably gives it another hit. Yep I'm completely against trading KAT for Trae. Let the Lakers have him and live and die by him. He'd fit there a lot better than here. I don't know if there's a player out there that I'd trade KAT for right now. I hate the thought of turning a dollar into 2 half dollars. I heard once that 2 nickels ain't the same as one dime and I think that there's really no reason to trade KAT right now. They've committed to the tax and you're really not going to get a better player if you trade KAT. We've been at the top of a loaded West all year. The construction works well enough to win. If it doesn't win in the playoffs, that's a different story. Then you can talk about shuffling the deck a bit. But until then, I like where we're at with the roster. Well obviously none of this is coming until AFTER the playoffs and the offseason. FWIW, I wouldnt expect them to do ANYTHING until trade deadline next year. Which ...maybe this was answered and I forgot: when are the penalties for being in the 2nd apron determined and when do they start? If we're in the 2nd apron at the START of next season...does that then mean that we are subject to all the 2nd apron penalties starting right then? Or is it figured out at what you END the year at and then penalties start the following year?
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Post by kingsxman on Mar 15, 2024 12:11:20 GMT -6
Yep I'm completely against trading KAT for Trae. Let the Lakers have him and live and die by him. He'd fit there a lot better than here. I don't know if there's a player out there that I'd trade KAT for right now. I hate the thought of turning a dollar into 2 half dollars. I heard once that 2 nickels ain't the same as one dime and I think that there's really no reason to trade KAT right now. They've committed to the tax and you're really not going to get a better player if you trade KAT. We've been at the top of a loaded West all year. The construction works well enough to win. If it doesn't win in the playoffs, that's a different story. Then you can talk about shuffling the deck a bit. But until then, I like where we're at with the roster. I don't think there's a KAT trade out there that makes sense either. It's really too bad that KAT got hurt as it's quite possible that this year will be our best chance to win. Our depth is only going to get whittled away going forward. Kyle, Morris, and JMac aren't all going to be back (if any) and Conley and Rudy get another year older. After next year, we likely won't be able to keep both Naz and NAW (or either). That's the problem for a team that is overpaying for their biggest salaried players. The other problem is structural. As you said, we've been good this year, but do we really think we can go deep with an offense that not even top half in the league? KAT can't play the 5 on a respectable D, but as a 4, we're not good enough on offense. And this is why you potentially look at moving KAT so you dont have to make THOSE decisions. It gets back to what I was saying about 2 50cent pieces equaling a dollar. KAT at 50 million is NOT worth losing NAW/NAZ and whatever else you would get for trading KAT. That doesnt mean he's not a good/great player. It just means that your team really cant afford to keep him if it means losing too many other good players. Naz: we have him all of next year and THEN he has a player option, which you know he will turn down for restricted free agency. (I think it would be restricted). NAW: we have him all of next year and then he is a unrestricted free agent. At this point...I believe NAW is the kind of player that you MUST keep to win a championship. He provides more value than his contract. Obviously depends on what his new contract would be, but I believe he'll always be a bit underpaid for what he gives you. Same with Naz.
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Post by jojo on Mar 15, 2024 13:50:42 GMT -6
Connelly and A-Lore knew what they were getting into salary-wise when they got Rudy. Maybe they couldn’t have foreseen Ant making NBA, but Jaden, NAW, Naz and Mike’s contracts are all pretty reasonable. Plus they are vastly outperforming expectations and selling out every night. They are making a huge paper profit with the value of the team going up after they locked the purchase price. And they stand to benefit from the new TV contract that will probably more than double the current revenue. The point is I would assume they expect to keep the team together and pay the tax at least for one year. They will probably leverage it to justify getting concessions for a new arena.
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Post by levine on Mar 15, 2024 19:20:40 GMT -6
If you are in the 2nd apron during the year, you operate as a 2nd apron team.
If you get under the apron during the year, you no longer have the penalties.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Mar 16, 2024 9:52:48 GMT -6
If you are in the 2nd apron during the year, you operate as a 2nd apron team. If you get under the apron during the year, you no longer have the penalties. One of the under discussed aspects of the new CBA IMO is the salary floor. As I understand, teams need to hit a higher floor (I think it's 90% of the cap) AND it has to be before the season. Teams can't just avoid signing players and then take back bad contracts later in the year to get to the floor by the old cutoff time. This impacts the Wolves because it's going to be a harder to cut major salary during the season. Before the season, a team could use cap space to take all or a portion of a big salary into their cap space. In season, the Wolves would have to take back salary per the matching rules which means it's a lot harder to cut money outright. Maybe it's not that big a deal as the matching rules could accommodate some decent sized swings in salary, but it does limit flexibility.
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Post by quinn on Mar 19, 2024 13:40:58 GMT -6
Interesting note from Doogie today. There was an article from David Sharma who had spoken with Glen. Per Glen, Lo-Rod had an equity group that was going to commit $300 million to the purchase but either backed out or was denied by the NBA. They now have to find a different investor. We're 8 days out from the payment deadline.
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Post by kingsxman on Mar 20, 2024 9:03:47 GMT -6
Interesting note from Doogie today. There was an article from David Sharma who had spoken with Glen. Per Glen, Lo-Rod had an equity group that was going to commit $300 million to the purchase but either backed out or was denied by the NBA. They now have to find a different investor. We're 8 days out from the payment deadline. Kind of surprised this isn't getting more play. I don't really hear anything about this.
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Post by Nick K on Mar 20, 2024 9:14:37 GMT -6
Interesting note from Doogie today. There was an article from David Sharma who had spoken with Glen. Per Glen, Lo-Rod had an equity group that was going to commit $300 million to the purchase but either backed out or was denied by the NBA. They now have to find a different investor. We're 8 days out from the payment deadline. I'm surprised they have run into these issues at this late date. Apparently the NBA didn't allow Carlisle the equity group from moving forward. They'll get it done with other options. Also, I'm sure Taylor will give them another extension if needed.
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Post by quinn on Mar 20, 2024 9:30:08 GMT -6
Interesting note from Doogie today. There was an article from David Sharma who had spoken with Glen. Per Glen, Lo-Rod had an equity group that was going to commit $300 million to the purchase but either backed out or was denied by the NBA. They now have to find a different investor. We're 8 days out from the payment deadline. Kind of surprised this isn't getting more play. I don't really hear anything about this. It just went out on ESPN last night. My guess is that's because it's such an embarrassing look for an already embarrassing purchase plan. Optics just prove the skeptics about how they don't have the money.
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Post by Nick K on Mar 20, 2024 9:38:57 GMT -6
Kind of surprised this isn't getting more play. I don't really hear anything about this. It just went out on ESPN last night. My guess is that's because it's such an embarrassing look for an already embarrassing purchase plan. Optics just prove the skeptics about how they don't have the money. I don't see anything embarrassing about it. These are complicated business deals with a ton of moving parts. They already have a ton of money into this so you can be sure they will find another way to add a minority partner to get it done.
I think we're talking 300 million that's left to be done for a minority partner. It's not that they don't have the money it's just that their assets aren't liquid. I think Lore alone is worth 4 billion dollars. ------------------
"As of today Marc Lore net worth is estimated at $4 billion as per Forbes List 2022".
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Post by quinn on Mar 20, 2024 9:47:14 GMT -6
It just went out on ESPN last night. My guess is that's because it's such an embarrassing look for an already embarrassing purchase plan. Optics just prove the skeptics about how they don't have the money. I don't see anything embarrassing about it. These are complicated business deals with a ton of moving parts. They already have a ton of money into this so you can be sure they will find another way to add a minority partner to get it done.
I think we're talking 300 million that's left to be done for a minority partner. It's not that they don't have the money it's just that their assets aren't liquid. I think Lore alone is worth 4 billion dollars. ------------------
"As of today Marc Lore net worth is estimated at $4 billion as per Forbes List 2022".
But they have a week to get the money. It's not like $300 million is chump change to him. That's a massive portion of his net worth if he was going to pay it himself. Plus, like you said, the assets aren't liquid. He'd have to sell his stake in a few ventures I'm sure, which is not something that can get done in a week. My guess is that they'll figure it out, but coming up with $300 mil in a week is no small task given how much vetting they'll need to do.
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Post by Nick K on Mar 20, 2024 9:49:53 GMT -6
I don't see anything embarrassing about it. These are complicated business deals with a ton of moving parts. They already have a ton of money into this so you can be sure they will find another way to add a minority partner to get it done.
I think we're talking 300 million that's left to be done for a minority partner. It's not that they don't have the money it's just that their assets aren't liquid. I think Lore alone is worth 4 billion dollars. ------------------
"As of today Marc Lore net worth is estimated at $4 billion as per Forbes List 2022".
But they have a week to get the money. It's not like $300 million is chump change to him. That's a massive portion of his net worth if he was going to pay it himself. Plus, like you said, the assets aren't liquid. He'd have to sell his stake in a few ventures I'm sure, which is not something that can get done in a week. My guess is that they'll figure it out, but coming up with $300 mil in a week is no small task given how much vetting they'll need to do. My guess is that Taylor will extend them more time as needed. Taylor wants them to own the club. I'm sure it will happen. I'd be totally shocked if it didn't.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Mar 20, 2024 10:13:55 GMT -6
My guess is that Taylor will extend them more time as needed. Taylor wants them to own the club. I'm sure it will happen. I'd be totally shocked if it didn't. Maybe? Reading between the lines, Taylor seems to be having a little remorse about the price. A lot has been written about how good of a deal it was. Taylor's more recent public quotes haven't been near as complementary to Lore/ARod as at the time of the initial sale. He specifically mentioned how they haven't talked recently. Taylor wants the team in MN, but he's also a businessman. Just my deduction, but I get the impression that he wouldn't mind if the sale didn't happen under the previous terms and he got a chance to open it back up again after seeing how good the team is currently and hearing about the great deal he gave Lore/ARod.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Mar 20, 2024 10:20:05 GMT -6
It just went out on ESPN last night. My guess is that's because it's such an embarrassing look for an already embarrassing purchase plan. Optics just prove the skeptics about how they don't have the money. I don't see anything embarrassing about it. These are complicated business deals with a ton of moving parts. They already have a ton of money into this so you can be sure they will find another way to add a minority partner to get it done.
I think we're talking 300 million that's left to be done for a minority partner. It's not that they don't have the money it's just that their assets aren't liquid. I think Lore alone is worth 4 billion dollars. ------------------
"As of today Marc Lore net worth is estimated at $4 billion as per Forbes List 2022".
To me it does seem a little embarrassing because it shows he doesn't have the money. It's a great valuation for the team. If Lore had the money, why would he not want to have as much equity in the purchase as possible? If you could buy a $1M home for $600k on your own, why would you seek others to help cover the cost? Just buy the home for $600k and then if you want sell equity in the asset with the higher valuation and realize the gain yourself. I gave Lore the benefit of the doubt initially as I wondered if he needed time to sell off stocks to realize his worth into cash, but he's had time to do that and he still wasn't able to fund the purchase himself.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Mar 20, 2024 10:25:19 GMT -6
This is pure speculation, but there's also the possibility that Taylor himself covertly threw some weight around with the NBA to get them to block this specific group. This is pure conspiracy level stuff, but Taylor calls a fellow owner or league contact to get them to block it leaving a very short window to pull someone else in??? Whoever they get is still going to require league approval so I'd wonder how fast that can be vetted. If this falls through, Taylor can void the deal and open it back up with a new valuation right on a team that has Ant for the next 5 years. Just sayin...
The next week or so will be interesting!
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Post by slick21 on Mar 20, 2024 11:18:00 GMT -6
It certainly makes me concerned as to the makeup of the team starting next season. If the purchasing of the team is essentially on a layaway installment plan (I know, Taylor wanted it this way) and they are still having problems coming up with the money, then how exactly do they plan on going into the luxury tax?
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Post by levine on Mar 20, 2024 11:22:41 GMT -6
It certainly makes me concerned as to the makeup of the team starting next season. If the purchasing of the team is essentially on a layaway installment plan (I know, Taylor wanted it this way) and they are still having problems coming up with the money, then how exactly do they plan on going into the luxury tax?Because NBA teams run at a profit. I doubt most of the owners of tax teams are dipping into their own pockets to make payroll.
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Post by quinn on Mar 20, 2024 13:16:32 GMT -6
Ope well I guess we were concerned for nothing.
Per Jon K, Lo-Rod have submitted the signed financial documentation to complete the purchase. Dyal Capital Partners has joined as a pre-approved investor. Board of Governers will vote in mid-April.
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Post by levine on Mar 20, 2024 13:22:25 GMT -6
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Post by Nick K on Mar 20, 2024 15:11:18 GMT -6
Ope well I guess we were concerned for nothing. Per Jon K, Lo-Rod have submitted the signed financial documentation to complete the purchase. Dyal Capital Partners has joined as a pre-approved investor. Board of Governers will vote in mid-April. Wasn't that what I was saying all along?
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Post by jojo on Mar 20, 2024 18:19:39 GMT -6
This tells me Lore knows what he’s doing. They probably wanted to go through Carlisle because they got better terms, but they had a backup lined up all along. Apparently other teams are using Dyal to fund their ownership as well. Btw A-Lore still came up with $300M which was 20% they used Dyal for the other 20. I get the feeling Lore does things his way when it comes to money and doesn’t give a bleep what it looks like. I’m not too worried about him coming up with cash when he needs it.
The weird part was Glens comments- it’s like he’s not even in the loop anymore. Maybe he’s just getting loopy at his age he’s always been a loose cannon- it’s what got him in trouble with KG.
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Post by jojo on Mar 20, 2024 18:41:20 GMT -6
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