Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2024 22:20:23 GMT -6
You didnt read the article did you. Your just commenting. I did, but you could really just stop after the headline/subheading.
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Post by cory on Apr 24, 2024 10:46:52 GMT -6
Loss of expansion money does not. Well it's not either or. Expansion could happen anywhere from five to ten years from now. I mean Hornets moved to New Orleans, then became the Pelicans, while Bobcats became the Hornets again. Expansion in Minnesota, versus Vegas or Seattle makes no difference to the other 30 owners. Personally I don't think expansion doesn't make sense. We need two more Wizards teams to play 82 games? Expansion fees will be highest in cities that can meet the demand. There is money in Vegas and Seattle. There are few markets remaining in the country that could afford an expansion fee that the league is going to seek and that Vegas and Seattle could produce. I think estimates are pegging $4B-$5B for a franchise. The Suns sold for $4B so I would anticipate a new franchise is closer to $5 at this point. The other owners are carving up the league revenue in perpetuity by another 2 franchises so they will expect a premium on the front end. If expansion doesn't occur in Vegas and Seattle, the only 2 markets that would seem to have the ability to land even a few billion would be Nashville and Mexico City. I don't know if that's workable in either case. Nashville's market would bump into Memphis and Mexico City seems to be a much bigger roll of the dice. Louisville is another consideration as well as Kansas City but the media markets are definitely less than MSP. Louisville could have FedEx money though. There's no other ownership group in Minnesota right now that has come forward in 30 years. There's money, but the Cargill's or other fortune 500 company founders are either divested from the major corporations they founded or not interested in being an owner. The Vikings have been owned by Red McCombs from Texas and the Wilfs from New Jersey for 30 years at this point. Minnesota is not as big with new money in private equity or tech where a lot of new owners have come from. It's long on old money though and those people have never shown interest or maybe they don't have that kind of capital at this point even. If the Wolves move, we are likely out of the NBA game for a very long time as I don't think we'd have the money to be in the next line of expansion. So when would we get back? If New Orleans or Charlotte move would be the next window.
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Post by levine on Apr 24, 2024 11:55:18 GMT -6
There is also no way we get an expansion team without a new stadium as well.
Target Center likely gets imploded the day the Wolves leave and something else takes its place.
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Post by araxen on Apr 24, 2024 16:41:37 GMT -6
Naz won Sixth man of the year!
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Post by araxen on Apr 24, 2024 16:54:30 GMT -6
He won by 10 points. Wow...
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Post by WolvesLife on Apr 24, 2024 17:03:22 GMT -6
Hell yes I wasn't sure if he was going to beat out Monk for a while there! Well deserved either way!!
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jr
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Post by jr on Apr 24, 2024 18:48:37 GMT -6
Who are the voters?
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Post by kingsxman on Apr 25, 2024 7:20:54 GMT -6
Well it's not either or. Expansion could happen anywhere from five to ten years from now. I mean Hornets moved to New Orleans, then became the Pelicans, while Bobcats became the Hornets again. Expansion in Minnesota, versus Vegas or Seattle makes no difference to the other 30 owners. Personally I don't think expansion doesn't make sense. We need two more Wizards teams to play 82 games? Expansion fees will be highest in cities that can meet the demand. There is money in Vegas and Seattle. There are few markets remaining in the country that could afford an expansion fee that the league is going to seek and that Vegas and Seattle could produce. I think estimates are pegging $4B-$5B for a franchise. The Suns sold for $4B so I would anticipate a new franchise is closer to $5 at this point. The other owners are carving up the league revenue in perpetuity by another 2 franchises so they will expect a premium on the front end. If expansion doesn't occur in Vegas and Seattle, the only 2 markets that would seem to have the ability to land even a few billion would be Nashville and Mexico City. I don't know if that's workable in either case. Nashville's market would bump into Memphis and Mexico City seems to be a much bigger roll of the dice. Louisville is another consideration as well as Kansas City but the media markets are definitely less than MSP. Louisville could have FedEx money though. There's no other ownership group in Minnesota right now that has come forward in 30 years. There's money, but the Cargill's or other fortune 500 company founders are either divested from the major corporations they founded or not interested in being an owner. The Vikings have been owned by Red McCombs from Texas and the Wilfs from New Jersey for 30 years at this point. Minnesota is not as big with new money in private equity or tech where a lot of new owners have come from. It's long on old money though and those people have never shown interest or maybe they don't have that kind of capital at this point even. If the Wolves move, we are likely out of the NBA game for a very long time as I don't think we'd have the money to be in the next line of expansion. So when would we get back? If New Orleans or Charlotte move would be the next window. Which really is why I want Lore and ARod to win in this mess with Glen. If Glen wins, LoRod will just sell thier shares as they arent going to stick around. Glen will eventually pass, his family wont want it and they wont feel the same way about keeping the team here as Glen did and will just sell it to the highest bidder. Who will "say" they want to keep the team here..but could care less. I actually DO believe LoRod wants to keep it here...and I think the NBA wants it here. Glen is really throwing a potential wrench in a lot of things here.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Apr 25, 2024 7:42:47 GMT -6
If Glen wins, LoRod will just sell thier shares as they arent going to stick around. If that's the case, it seems they won't make as much as one would think. That recent article on the issue explained that LoRod paid a control premium for their shares as they were buying under the premise of eventually being the majority owners (they paid full price). Typically when someone buys in as a known minority owner/limited partner, they get a discount as they'll never have control of the team. If LoRod want to sell, they have no leverage to get the same control premium they paid and would in theory have to sell at a discounted rate. They'd probably still come out ahead given the appreciated value of the team, but not the full boat. Basically their ~40% stake they bought for ~$600M isn't actually worth $1.2B. So yes, Glen is throwing a wrench in a lot of things.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Apr 25, 2024 7:50:08 GMT -6
My wild speculation that's probably not even possible...
In that article it mentioned how Glen had bought out another minority owner to keep his share of the team above LoRod's 36% (or whatever it is). It'd be fascinating to know the actual percentages owned by ALL of the owners. How much minority stake is out there and could LoRod buy from them directly? It would be hilarious if LoRod offered several of the minority owners like 3x or 4x the price for their stakes in the team to boost their ownership just above 50% so that they were the controlling owners. There's probably language where the minority owners have to sell to Glen or at least give him right of refusal so probably just my ignorance of how these things work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2024 8:46:56 GMT -6
In what should be a ten minute process, we'll probably have an answer before a potential finals which is interesting. Alex and Marc could still stay on if they love Minnesota.
As for TC leaving or staying, he's not really leaving Glen or A-Rod. What he would be leaving is this staff, this team, that nice marble countertop. I would be surprised to see him leave Ant and Leo, the Washington gig (closer to home) was just filled, so that's likely not opening up this off-season. I think if he moves it is likely more related to fam, than leaving Ant, what is happening here.
If he goes I give Kilborn a shot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2024 9:24:01 GMT -6
I think it's a combo of coaches and media. It probably helped Monk missed the last month or so, it's been fun to see him evolve over the years. And also I think the g-league deserves a lot of credit here, in that teams can just take a bunch of dudes and slow build, versus prior to, you're trying to fit them into ten roster spots, and if you can't guarantee playing time, seats, 11, 12, 13 are fringe NBA guys and likely out of the league. Pretty sure the reason it changed was the Built to Lose Era actually, because what would be the point of collecting all these draft picks if you couldn't roster them. Which is why so many used to be euro stashes, or flipped for cash. He's on deck for the next points tracker! He's like Bobby Portis, if Milwaukee fans said trade Middleton we want to build around Portis and Giannis.
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Post by kingsxman on Apr 25, 2024 9:50:26 GMT -6
If Glen wins, LoRod will just sell thier shares as they arent going to stick around. If that's the case, it seems they won't make as much as one would think. That recent article on the issue explained that LoRod paid a control premium for their shares as they were buying under the premise of eventually being the majority owners (they paid full price). Typically when someone buys in as a known minority owner/limited partner, they get a discount as they'll never have control of the team. If LoRod want to sell, they have no leverage to get the same control premium they paid and would in theory have to sell at a discounted rate. They'd probably still come out ahead given the appreciated value of the team, but not the full boat. Basically their ~40% stake they bought for ~$600M isn't actually worth $1.2B. So yes, Glen is throwing a wrench in a lot of things. Yes, but could you see them actually WANTING to hang around? They paid a premium but it still was a premium of 1.5 billion. At 2.5 billion now (low estimate)...they'd still be making a tidy profit. If they lose I think they'll want to divest and wipe their hands clean and try to make some $$ for the next adventure.
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Post by levine on Apr 25, 2024 10:08:15 GMT -6
If Glen wins, LoRod will just sell thier shares as they arent going to stick around. If that's the case, it seems they won't make as much as one would think. That recent article on the issue explained that LoRod paid a control premium for their shares as they were buying under the premise of eventually being the majority owners (they paid full price). Typically when someone buys in as a known minority owner/limited partner, they get a discount as they'll never have control of the team. If LoRod want to sell, they have no leverage to get the same control premium they paid and would in theory have to sell at a discounted rate. They'd probably still come out ahead given the appreciated value of the team, but not the full boat. Basically their ~40% stake they bought for ~$600M isn't actually worth $1.2B. So yes, Glen is throwing a wrench in a lot of things. I think that could end up in a legal battle as well, since the intent was always that they'd have controlling interest.
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Post by cory on Apr 25, 2024 11:14:23 GMT -6
If that's the case, it seems they won't make as much as one would think. That recent article on the issue explained that LoRod paid a control premium for their shares as they were buying under the premise of eventually being the majority owners (they paid full price). Typically when someone buys in as a known minority owner/limited partner, they get a discount as they'll never have control of the team. If LoRod want to sell, they have no leverage to get the same control premium they paid and would in theory have to sell at a discounted rate. They'd probably still come out ahead given the appreciated value of the team, but not the full boat. Basically their ~40% stake they bought for ~$600M isn't actually worth $1.2B. So yes, Glen is throwing a wrench in a lot of things. Yes, but could you see them actually WANTING to hang around? They paid a premium but it still was a premium of 1.5 billion. At 2.5 billion now (low estimate)...they'd still be making a tidy profit. If they lose I think they'll want to divest and wipe their hands clean and try to make some $$ for the next adventure. I don't quite understand the idea that they will look to offload it in the short term. NBA franchises rarely get flipped like a car or house and are great long term asset protection. ARod has also been seeking ownership of a franchise at least 2 other times (Mets and Marlins I believe) and enjoys being in the mix as does Lore. Minnesota is not Seattle or Vegas but having a home on Minnetonka and a relatively relaxed atmosphere as an owner is a pretty appealing place. There also is a fan base that is craving to support a winner and land within 30 minutes of the metro that is suitable for development if a stadium needs to be built without public funding in downtown and that could produce even more cash flow long term. The Timberwolves are a great asset long term for Lore and ARod. It might produce some short-term revenue if they wanted to offload but nothing really indicates to me that they are actually flippers other than people's disdain for ARod overall. EDIT - Misread your comment as them not wanting to stay as owners long term. Someone else had mentioned that they think Lore and ARod would sell them shortly after getting majority ownership and that's the idea I was responding to.
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Post by cory on Apr 25, 2024 11:21:19 GMT -6
My wild speculation that's probably not even possible... In that article it mentioned how Glen had bought out another minority owner to keep his share of the team above LoRod's 36% (or whatever it is). It'd be fascinating to know the actual percentages owned by ALL of the owners. How much minority stake is out there and could LoRod buy from them directly? It would be hilarious if LoRod offered several of the minority owners like 3x or 4x the price for their stakes in the team to boost their ownership just above 50% so that they were the controlling owners. There's probably language where the minority owners have to sell to Glen or at least give him right of refusal so probably just my ignorance of how these things work. It would be really interesting. I believe there are strict terms on those minority owners and what they can do. It was really interesting to me that Bill Sexton was the one person who sold just enough to get Glen over the hump. Bill Sexton is probably older than Glen and is probably his longest held minority owner as he is the St. John's alum who brought the team up to campus for training camp in the early 2000's. Meyer Orbach doesn't seem to be a fan of Glen as indicated by lawsuits. Glen's willing to say whatever he has to say at this point to sabotage the deal. A true snake.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2024 11:40:48 GMT -6
Don't forget about his act of kindness which was eating the blame for the illegal Joe Smith deal.
That blame is on McHale, who is hands down the worst gm in Minnesota sports history.
It’s demonstrates such a spirit of generosity and forgiveness, most gm’s get canned there. Obviously being part of Celtic Royalty and having the Shameless Boston Media spin everything as players or agents fault helps too.
Like how it was framed as Wolves can’t win because KG commands too much money to surround with talent, which again is on behalf of McHale because he was unable to surround KG with a competent team.
Even Cassell and Spree, that happens because KG became buds with them over all-star appearances. It’s not like McFail recruited them there.
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Post by Bonecrusher on Apr 25, 2024 12:55:51 GMT -6
Naz won Sixth man of the year! This is phenomenal news and very happy for Naz. I figured he would win because he was critical to our success when KAT went down. I don't know if Monk had a similar situation or not but I'm guessing he didn't.
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Post by kingsxman on Apr 25, 2024 17:06:37 GMT -6
Yes, but could you see them actually WANTING to hang around? They paid a premium but it still was a premium of 1.5 billion. At 2.5 billion now (low estimate)...they'd still be making a tidy profit. If they lose I think they'll want to divest and wipe their hands clean and try to make some $$ for the next adventure. I don't quite understand the idea that they will look to offload it in the short term. NBA franchises rarely get flipped like a car or house and are great long term asset protection. ARod has also been seeking ownership of a franchise at least 2 other times (Mets and Marlins I believe) and enjoys being in the mix as does Lore. Minnesota is not Seattle or Vegas but having a home on Minnetonka and a relatively relaxed atmosphere as an owner is a pretty appealing place. There also is a fan base that is craving to support a winner and land within 30 minutes of the metro that is suitable for development if a stadium needs to be built without public funding in downtown and that could produce even more cash flow long term. The Timberwolves are a great asset long term for Lore and ARod. It might produce some short-term revenue if they wanted to offload but nothing really indicates to me that they are actually flippers other than people's disdain for ARod overall. EDIT - Misread your comment as them not wanting to stay as owners long term. Someone else had mentioned that they think Lore and ARod would sell them shortly after getting majority ownership and that's the idea I was responding to. If they get it they aint selling it. Too good of a market. As for "flipping" franchises....I think that the metoric rise of sports franchises over the last 10 years has priced out the vast majority of rich folk who could have afforded a team in the past. I dont know that the franchises will continue to raise in value like they have. Market forces from the standpoint of less buyers.
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Post by WolvesLife on Apr 27, 2024 13:07:02 GMT -6
This team somewhat reminds me of the 2004 Pistons squad with how the play defense: Steady point guard, long wing players, a deep bench and two bigs with one who can shoot and one who's an all-time defensive great. Only thing is that squad didn't have Edwards, so.. this is super exciting
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Post by Nick K on Apr 27, 2024 19:31:59 GMT -6
Naz won Sixth man of the year! He is clearly deserving. No doubt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2024 9:14:45 GMT -6
Finch is our man in the chair.
Minnesota Timberwolves coach Chris Finch will undergo surgery to repair a right patellar tendon Wednesday and it remains unclear whether he’ll be able to open the franchise’s Western Conference semifinal series against the Denver Nuggets on the bench, sources told ESPN. In the early stages of the rehabilitation, surgery will require Finch’s right leg to be immobilized in a brace. If Finch isn’t able to park on the sidelines to start the series, assistant Micah Nori will coach Game 1 on Saturday — with Finch communicating to the bench from the locker room, sources said. – via ESPN
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2024 10:31:56 GMT -6
Perhaps he could use those aerial silk ribbons Pink uses in concerts to float above the game like a human angel.
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Post by levine on Apr 30, 2024 12:46:41 GMT -6
The first 10 minutes are all about Ant:
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Post by Nick K on Apr 30, 2024 13:04:16 GMT -6
Perhaps he could use those aerial silk ribbons Pink uses in concerts to float above the game like a human angel. Finch will be there no matter how much it hurts. He'll be shouting commands to Micah and be in the heat of the battle. I can't wait to see the chair or whatever they will have him in.
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