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Post by levine on Dec 21, 2023 12:57:42 GMT -6
From Jake Paynter's player ratings from the Philly game: Shake Milton: 1/10 What the (I have a potty mouth) is he doing back out there again? ----------------- I love it. I must say I was wondering that too. :) Shake has been a HUGE disappointment. Maybe even worse than my guy Nowell who I had high hopes for. I think Finch wanted to give him some run against his former team. That said, 13 minutes was about 10 too many...
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Post by XRaySpecs on Dec 21, 2023 13:45:53 GMT -6
The Embiid whistle was bad and hard to watch. Still, our guys make it too easy for them to call it by doing stupid things when they have to know it's coming. Rudy getting a dumb foul running up the court for his first foul was so silly. Both he and KAT had reaching fouls on Joel's rip through. It's a combo of Joel being really good at baiting and selling fouls, the refs giving them to him, and our guys not having the discipline to avoid taking the bait. It is hard to watch though. Britt had a point in a tweet that I totally saw and agreed with that Joel fell down in the 2nd qtr on a jumper where he wasn't touched. That should be a flop and a technical foul.
Another point about the game is that I think Finch was clearly outcoached. Once it became clear that Embiid was roasting us and that Maxey was the only other guy that could do anything, we HAD to try to make others beat us. No one had more than 9 points outside of those 2. We just stuck with our guns of not doubling and it wasn't working. I actually think we should have tried something like putting Ant on Joel when he was out at 15 ft. Our bigs were sagging off enough because they were worried about getting blown buy. We should have put Ant (Kyle would have been better but he was playing so poorly) on Embiid and then helped on him if he got into the lane.
The bench was awful last night. Only NAW didn't actively hurt the team. Way too many turnovers from those guys.
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Post by Nick K on Dec 21, 2023 15:14:20 GMT -6
The Embiid whistle was bad and hard to watch. Still, our guys make it too easy for them to call it by doing stupid things when they have to know it's coming. Rudy getting a dumb foul running up the court for his first foul was so silly. Both he and KAT had reaching fouls on Joel's rip through. It's a combo of Joel being really good at baiting and selling fouls, the refs giving them to him, and our guys not having the discipline to avoid taking the bait. It is hard to watch though. Britt had a point in a tweet that I totally saw and agreed with that Joel fell down in the 2nd qtr on a jumper where he wasn't touched. That should be a flop and a technical foul. Another point about the game is that I think Finch was clearly outcoached. Once it became clear that Embiid was roasting us and that Maxey was the only other guy that could do anything, we HAD to try to make others beat us. No one had more than 9 points outside of those 2. We just stuck with our guns of not doubling and it wasn't working. I actually think we should have tried something like putting Ant on Joel when he was out at 15 ft. Our bigs were sagging off enough because they were worried about getting blown buy. We should have put Ant (Kyle would have been better but he was playing so poorly) on Embiid and then helped on him if he got into the lane. The bench was awful last night. Only NAW didn't actively hurt the team. Way too many turnovers from those guys. The bench was awful. How about Kyle Anderson who has had many more bad games than good ones this year.
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Post by WolvesLife on Dec 21, 2023 17:18:45 GMT -6
Being in the same room as Embiid counts as a foul these days. Nothing fun about the refs thinking they're the star of the show
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Post by araxen on Dec 21, 2023 17:28:46 GMT -6
The Embiid whistle was bad and hard to watch. Still, our guys make it too easy for them to call it by doing stupid things when they have to know it's coming. Rudy getting a dumb foul running up the court for his first foul was so silly. Both he and KAT had reaching fouls on Joel's rip through. It's a combo of Joel being really good at baiting and selling fouls, the refs giving them to him, and our guys not having the discipline to avoid taking the bait. It is hard to watch though. Britt had a point in a tweet that I totally saw and agreed with that Joel fell down in the 2nd qtr on a jumper where he wasn't touched. That should be a flop and a technical foul. Another point about the game is that I think Finch was clearly outcoached. Once it became clear that Embiid was roasting us and that Maxey was the only other guy that could do anything, we HAD to try to make others beat us. No one had more than 9 points outside of those 2. We just stuck with our guns of not doubling and it wasn't working. I actually think we should have tried something like putting Ant on Joel when he was out at 15 ft. Our bigs were sagging off enough because they were worried about getting blown buy. We should have put Ant (Kyle would have been better but he was playing so poorly) on Embiid and then helped on him if he got into the lane. The bench was awful last night. Only NAW didn't actively hurt the team. Way too many turnovers from those guys. I feel it's just a matter of time before a team walks out mid-game over the lopsided officiating. You can only take so much. What I wouldn't give for FIBA officiated games. I'm not a person that usually complains about the refs, but last night was absurd.
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Post by kingsxman on Dec 22, 2023 8:48:14 GMT -6
The Embiid whistle was bad and hard to watch. Still, our guys make it too easy for them to call it by doing stupid things when they have to know it's coming. Rudy getting a dumb foul running up the court for his first foul was so silly. Both he and KAT had reaching fouls on Joel's rip through. It's a combo of Joel being really good at baiting and selling fouls, the refs giving them to him, and our guys not having the discipline to avoid taking the bait. It is hard to watch though. Britt had a point in a tweet that I totally saw and agreed with that Joel fell down in the 2nd qtr on a jumper where he wasn't touched. That should be a flop and a technical foul. Another point about the game is that I think Finch was clearly outcoached. Once it became clear that Embiid was roasting us and that Maxey was the only other guy that could do anything, we HAD to try to make others beat us. No one had more than 9 points outside of those 2. We just stuck with our guns of not doubling and it wasn't working. I actually think we should have tried something like putting Ant on Joel when he was out at 15 ft. Our bigs were sagging off enough because they were worried about getting blown buy. We should have put Ant (Kyle would have been better but he was playing so poorly) on Embiid and then helped on him if he got into the lane. The bench was awful last night. Only NAW didn't actively hurt the team. Way too many turnovers from those guys. I feel it's just a matter of time before a team walks out mid-game over the lopsided officiating. You can only take so much. What I wouldn't give for FIBA officiated games. I'm not a person that usually complains about the refs, but last night was absurd. The worst part about it is that it doesnt have to be that way. The refs could change it tomorrow. I truly dont understand why they allow it to happen. It makes them look bad. And they have to KNOW it makes them look bad. One thing on Danes pod that either Dane or Britt mentioned is that this does do a bit of a disservice to the 76ers as during the post season, the whistles get swallowed a bit more. And they dont know what to do when the game is called evenly. So...from that standpoint......they deserve what they get.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Dec 22, 2023 9:41:39 GMT -6
The worst part about it is that it doesnt have to be that way. The refs could change it tomorrow. I truly dont understand why they allow it to happen. It makes them look bad. And they have to KNOW it makes them look bad. I thought Dane and Brit had a good discussion on fouling on their most recent pod. Both agreed that it's not fun to watch, but I agree with Dane that it's not something that can be changed now. Those kinds of points of emphasis are changed in the offseason. The NBA hasn't been in the practice of changing rules like that in season. Not sure I remember an instance of them changing midstream. The fouls on Embiid are technically fouls and as Dane pointed out, they're a different type of foul than the contact that happened to Ant and Jaden vs. Philly. Those were certainly missed calls, but it is a different entity, aggressive block/charge type calls on drives vs. touch fouls on someone's shooting motion. I agree with Brit that I'd rather get the aggressive fouls correct at expense of touch fouls, but it's not like one substitutes the other. The foul on Ant is hard to ref. The touch fouls on Embiid are easier to see even if they're minimal contact. I agree that the rules should be changed, but what I'd really love to see is our guys adapt to how the game is currently called. We're not the only team that has problems fouling Embiid so we should have anticipated how it would be called and adapt our strategy. Keep your hands back! Don't pick up cheap fouls away from the ball! Put different guys on Embiid when he's that far out. Also, we could use the current rules better. For example, KAT gets stood up on his drives many times with body contact early in the drive. He could just do what guys like Reaves and Lillard do. When he feels that contact, just let it push you slightly off path and throw up the shot right there. If contact moves your path and you're shooting they HAVE to call it just like they do with Reaves. Our guys could do it too, but it's an attribute they need to develop.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Dec 22, 2023 9:45:43 GMT -6
Another way too look at it is that in current game (even though it's not great to watch) we'd all be lauding Embiid for utilizing an advantage in the rules if he were on the Wolves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2023 10:37:59 GMT -6
Ant on the Embiid whistle:
Clutch Points: “He’s unstoppable, man. I don’t see how they lose a game, honestly… Besides all the fouls, I don’t like him getting all that but, he just comes, handles his business & get the f*ck on… He’s special.” Anthony Edwards on Joel Embiid 🗣️ pic.twitter.com/jzIVxZZbhM – via Twitter ClutchPointsApp
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jr
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Post by jr on Dec 22, 2023 11:00:57 GMT -6
Another way too look at it is that in current game (even though it's not great to watch) we'd all be lauding Embiid for utilizing an advantage in the rules if he were on the Wolves. No, I wouldn't. It's the same as Harden's career cornerstone, and in all the moving around that he's done, I've always figured if he somehow ended up with the wolves, I'd stop watching them. I cannot cheer for that kind of stuff because it's not basketball as I want to know it. That game is acting. Like flopping, it's tricking the refs and the system. One call I watched a few times was Embid on the perimeter being guarded by Jaden. Embid essentially did a sweep, but it wasn't side to side; he extended his long arms and the ball straight into Jaden while also driving into him. Jaden DID NOT extend his arms. His hands were inches from his own body. Embid extended his arms into Jaden. Jaden did everything he could to get his arms and body out of the way. The defender has no chance if the refs let him get away with it. Embid clearly initiated that contact. That play could be created every single time a ballhandler is defended if he is strong and intent enough to not get stripped. I quit watching the game shortly after that.
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jr
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Post by jr on Dec 22, 2023 11:07:54 GMT -6
Ant on the Embiid whistle: Clutch Points: “He’s unstoppable, man. I don’t see how they lose a game, honestly… Besides all the fouls, I don’t like him getting all that but, he just comes, handles his business & get the f*ck on… He’s special.” Anthony Edwards on Joel Embiid 🗣️ pic.twitter.com/jzIVxZZbhM – via Twitter ClutchPointsApp
That statement is from the master class on how to complain about the reffing without getting fined.
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Post by wunderwolf on Dec 22, 2023 12:56:48 GMT -6
The worst part about it is that it doesnt have to be that way. The refs could change it tomorrow. I truly dont understand why they allow it to happen. It makes them look bad. And they have to KNOW it makes them look bad. I thought Dane and Brit had a good discussion on fouling on their most recent pod. Both agreed that it's not fun to watch, but I agree with Dane that it's not something that can be changed now. Those kinds of points of emphasis are changed in the offseason. The NBA hasn't been in the practice of changing rules like that in season. Not sure I remember an instance of them changing midstream. The fouls on Embiid are technically fouls and as Dane pointed out, they're a different type of foul than the contact that happened to Ant and Jaden vs. Philly. Those were certainly missed calls, but it is a different entity, aggressive block/charge type calls on drives vs. touch fouls on someone's shooting motion. I agree with Brit that I'd rather get the aggressive fouls correct at expense of touch fouls, but it's not like one substitutes the other. The foul on Ant is hard to ref. The touch fouls on Embiid are easier to see even if they're minimal contact. I agree that the rules should be changed, but what I'd really love to see is our guys adapt to how the game is currently called. We're not the only team that has problems fouling Embiid so we should have anticipated how it would be called and adapt our strategy. Keep your hands back! Don't pick up cheap fouls away from the ball! Put different guys on Embiid when he's that far out. Also, we could use the current rules better. For example, KAT gets stood up on his drives many times with body contact early in the drive. He could just do what guys like Reaves and Lillard do. When he feels that contact, just let it push you slightly off path and throw up the shot right there. If contact moves your path and you're shooting they HAVE to call it just like they do with Reaves. Our guys could do it too, but it's an attribute they need to develop. I disagree because at least in the first half, a majority of those calls for Embid were not fouls. The defenders were going straight up in several of them, and Embid initiates the contact and then flails. Those are not fouls, and FIBA world cup refs were not giving players like Luka and Brunson those calls which they rely on in the NBA. Brunson was mostly a non factor in that environment. Not basketball plays, rather, just trying to get refs to blow whistle. It has to stop.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2023 13:32:21 GMT -6
What we're all talking about here is FOM. It's these garbage fouls offensive players are gifted precisely because of that rule, in which since that time offense has exploded, from Harden, Curry, that first year, to the modern league where everyone is scoring huge numbers from Brunson, Haliburton, SGA, Ja, Luka, and it sucks.
It is why FIBA is better basketball currently, and wunder's correct, why Luka freaks out every year in FIBA after playing in the NBA. It's why FIBA isn't dominated by movement shooters the way the NBA regular season too often is.
If we want it to go back, I can tell you the more that contact the league, about reverting to pre-FOM, and resetting the shot clock, the more chance there is to change it.
Never in a million years would I have been a fan of this sport if I started watching post 2018-19. It's just a lot of shitty one on on junk, and the defense has been legislated out. Comes back a tiny, tiny amount in playoffs, but also not really, like when watching the Kings Warriors last year, and the d is parting like Moses and the sea as Steph dribbles around, all the way to the rim unimpeded, and then getting the And 1 as he jumps into someone near the rim.
Jimmy's another one that exploded post FOM, which makes sense, because you kind of have to run alongside him to the hoop, and then what he's there, guess what? He's getting free throws. It's why Holiday couldn't do anything with him last year. He's not doing that pre-FOM, because it was not possible to just drive wherever you want at all times.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2023 14:35:49 GMT -6
The league has tried to claw back some of the most egregious calls offensive guys have gotten, but all of our problems stem from that rule change.
You don't like charges? Too bad, because no one can keep anyone out of the lane. Too many three's? A direct result of every player and their mom can drive and kick now if they get a fraction of a step downhill.
I'm telling ya, this thing broke basketball, and it is amazing to me, the louder voices NBA coverage never even covered it as it was happening, or since, at best would lazily say things like guys are more talented than ever, or three's or more than two.
If you don't think anyone in 2010 could have got to the rim once they had a step on someone in 2023 you just don't appreciate how massive this change was for defense. It is a direct result of the league deciding this is what they want, and changing the rules to make it happen.
Jaden and Naz ain't doing shit off the dribble even as recently as the way teams could defend in 2010.
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Post by stretcharmstrong on Dec 22, 2023 16:07:51 GMT -6
Chiming in late. I almost went to this game, glad I did not. I knew on the first foul on Gobert it was going to be a long night. I am still not cure how he got the foul call on the break and the Philly player crashes into him trying to get the ball or keep him from moving. I just shook my head. Turns out the rest of the night the Refs would be quick to make calls.
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Post by kingsxman on Dec 22, 2023 16:31:58 GMT -6
The worst part about it is that it doesnt have to be that way. The refs could change it tomorrow. I truly dont understand why they allow it to happen. It makes them look bad. And they have to KNOW it makes them look bad. I thought Dane and Brit had a good discussion on fouling on their most recent pod. Both agreed that it's not fun to watch, but I agree with Dane that it's not something that can be changed now. Those kinds of points of emphasis are changed in the offseason. The NBA hasn't been in the practice of changing rules like that in season. Not sure I remember an instance of them changing midstream. The fouls on Embiid are technically fouls and as Dane pointed out, they're a different type of foul than the contact that happened to Ant and Jaden vs. Philly. Those were certainly missed calls, but it is a different entity, aggressive block/charge type calls on drives vs. touch fouls on someone's shooting motion. I agree with Brit that I'd rather get the aggressive fouls correct at expense of touch fouls, but it's not like one substitutes the other. The foul on Ant is hard to ref. The touch fouls on Embiid are easier to see even if they're minimal contact. I agree that the rules should be changed, but what I'd really love to see is our guys adapt to how the game is currently called. We're not the only team that has problems fouling Embiid so we should have anticipated how it would be called and adapt our strategy. Keep your hands back! Don't pick up cheap fouls away from the ball! Put different guys on Embiid when he's that far out. Also, we could use the current rules better. For example, KAT gets stood up on his drives many times with body contact early in the drive. He could just do what guys like Reaves and Lillard do. When he feels that contact, just let it push you slightly off path and throw up the shot right there. If contact moves your path and you're shooting they HAVE to call it just like they do with Reaves. Our guys could do it too, but it's an attribute they need to develop. While I agree in principle, i still think the refs could change things now. Those rip through that got called are so iffy..... you can barely see IN SLOW MOTION that Embiid is touching the other players hands/arms on a number of those calls. Those very easily could be NOT called by the refs with no harm (no foul). And as to which is worse and needs to be addressed....these touch fouls, when they are putting the opposite team at a disadvantage night in and night out, is more damaging IMHO. BTW, it seemed like there was some makeup calls last night for us. I thought we got by with some stuff last night that usually would have been called.
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