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Post by The Country Club on Oct 6, 2018 10:15:25 GMT -6
You also have 7 fewer rebounds than him.
All that cost you is $25.25 mil...
Congrats on your hard work, Andrew.
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Post by The Country Club on Oct 8, 2018 12:44:14 GMT -6
Update, make that 4 preseason games.
But he had 4 turnovers...so at least that's going up for him.
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Post by cory on Oct 8, 2018 12:56:59 GMT -6
Dane Moore has a really good podcast for Wolves coverage and he brought up something that I haven't heard from others but I think is likely true. They were talking about Butler vs. Wiggins and why Andrew can't or won't ever be that player. The big thing that is talked about is hustle, energy, whatever you want to go with. But Dane said Andrew does not have the IQ to be that good of a basketball player. It wasn't a complete knock on his intelligence but in basketball terms, he will never possess any ability to think beyond just him having the ball and doing what he wants with it with no regard to anyone else on the court. Basketball is a tool for him to get rich. It's not a sport he has any real natural instinct for or any ability to understand other than the basic concept of what he is doing with the ball and how to score.
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Post by The Country Club on Oct 8, 2018 13:37:22 GMT -6
I'm apt to agree on that point - if we had a team of glue guys with efficient usage we could work through Wiggins being a knucklehead (see Utah with Mitchell although Mitchell has a higher basketball IQ).
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Post by tjstyles on Oct 8, 2018 13:55:14 GMT -6
I'm apt to agree on that point - if we had a team of glue guys with efficient usage we could work through Wiggins being a knucklehead (see Utah with Mitchell although Mitchell has a higher basketball IQ). I suspect that a team of role-players and Wiggins would perform better with Wiggins on the bench than with him getting significant usage. The thing with role-players is that they usually do what they are efficient at. Wiggins does what he thinks "is cool", i.e. long, off-balance, contested 2-pointers. Kobe made a career out of those shots in crunch time, so Wiggins thinks that if he can hit those shots, then he is "the next Kobe". The sad thing is that even without better awareness and ignoring the defensive side of the game, Wiggins has the tools to be a really good player. He has a reasonable 3 point shot. He has the ability to get to the rim. All he has to do is move around without the ball and he would be tearing it up. Well, movement and getting to the right places, instead of constantly taking a step or two inside the 3-point line then taking a fade-away. His efficiency would skyrocket and he would be a nightmare to guard off the ball. But, he wants the ball in his hands. If his ego would get out of the way, he could earn that salary.
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Post by levine on Oct 8, 2018 14:32:36 GMT -6
I'm apt to agree on that point - if we had a team of glue guys with efficient usage we could work through Wiggins being a knucklehead (see Utah with Mitchell although Mitchell has a higher basketball IQ). I suspect that a team of role-players and Wiggins would perform better with Wiggins on the bench than with him getting significant usage. The thing with role-players is that they usually do what they are efficient at. Wiggins does what he thinks "is cool", i.e. long, off-balance, contested 2-pointers. Kobe made a career out of those shots in crunch time, so Wiggins thinks that if he can hit those shots, then he is "the next Kobe". The sad thing is that even without better awareness and ignoring the defensive side of the game, Wiggins has the tools to be a really good player. He has a reasonable 3 point shot. He has the ability to get to the rim. All he has to do is move around without the ball and he would be tearing it up. Well, movement and getting to the right places, instead of constantly taking a step or two inside the 3-point line then taking a fade-away. His efficiency would skyrocket and he would be a nightmare to guard off the ball. But, he wants the ball in his hands. If his ego would get out of the way, he could earn that salary. Disagree strongly with that. He's a career 33% 3pt shooter and he's a pretty poor FT shooter for a wing. As far as getting to the rim, he's great if he has a wide open lane and a running start, but how often do you see him actually able to get to the rim during any given game? Twice? Maybe? He doesn't have nearly the handle to navigate any kind of traffic.
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Post by tjstyles on Oct 8, 2018 15:08:58 GMT -6
I suspect that a team of role-players and Wiggins would perform better with Wiggins on the bench than with him getting significant usage. The thing with role-players is that they usually do what they are efficient at. Wiggins does what he thinks "is cool", i.e. long, off-balance, contested 2-pointers. Kobe made a career out of those shots in crunch time, so Wiggins thinks that if he can hit those shots, then he is "the next Kobe". The sad thing is that even without better awareness and ignoring the defensive side of the game, Wiggins has the tools to be a really good player. He has a reasonable 3 point shot. He has the ability to get to the rim. All he has to do is move around without the ball and he would be tearing it up. Well, movement and getting to the right places, instead of constantly taking a step or two inside the 3-point line then taking a fade-away. His efficiency would skyrocket and he would be a nightmare to guard off the ball. But, he wants the ball in his hands. If his ego would get out of the way, he could earn that salary. Disagree strongly with that. He's a career 33% 3pt shooter and he's a pretty poor FT shooter for a wing. As far as getting to the rim, he's great if he has a wide open lane and a running start, but how often do you see him actually able to get to the rim during any given game? Twice? Maybe? He doesn't have nearly the handle to navigate any kind of traffic. Wiggins has had a 35% 3PT season and often starts the season north of 36% from 3PT range. His shot selection is atrocious, so his 3PT shooting is not sustainable. But, when he is looking for the 3 point shot, and he doesn't have the ball in his hand, he is a reasonable catch and shoot threat at range. While he may not be our most reliable deep option, if we ran him off screens off the ball, ala Kevin Martin, defenders would have a hard time keeping up with him. If they get through the screen, Wiggins could cut back around and cut to the rim. If they get stopped on the screen, pass him the ball and shoot a 3. This is something we ran a good amount with LaVine (who is better at it, but Wiggins is passable with it) and Boston used to do a ton with Ray Allen during their Championship run. I wouldn't make it a "feature" of the offense, but him actually doing it a few times a game would make him harder to guard. Before I continue, I should mention my whole post above was about him playing off the ball. Wiggins has the ability to cut to the rim off the ball just like AK47. He chooses not to. If he doesn't have the ball, he checks out. He was guilty of this even with Rubio here, but it is worse now that Rubio is gone. But, without the ball in his hands, him cutting to the rim puts a lot of pressure on the defense. He has the ability to get up over defenders for a lob, so it isn't out of the question that he could draw help defenders even when he doesn't have the ball. I know your next point will be that Teague does not have the ability to get him a good pass to finish if he does get to the rim, but that is a completely different topic; Andrew has the ability to do these things. We have had this discussion a few times, and I do get what you are saying, and I agree in principle. I do not believe Wiggins will ever be this player. I am not suggesting that he will be. I am simply saying that these things are within his skillset if he were to actually apply himself. If he could accept a role like Trevor Ariza or Raja Bell, he would become a pretty big threat for us. Now, I am not suggesting he would be able to become as good a 3-point shooter as Bell, but you don't have to shoot above 40% from 3-point range to force the defense to respect you at the arc. I do not think Wiggins will change his mindset, but I do still believe that all it would take is for him to do so to become a good player. He has a ton of tools; he just has no clue how to properly use them...and no desire to learn.
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Post by levine on Oct 8, 2018 15:35:32 GMT -6
I don't think he checks out when he doesn't have the ball so much as he doesn't know/understand what to do. He's a lot like Zach LaVine that way. Cutting is more than desire, its understanding offense 1 or 2 passes ahead of the game, its reading and reacting to your teammates and defenders. I don't think Wiggins possesses the ability to do those things.
And yeah, he has a single 35% 3pt shooting season. He also has 3 seasons between 30 and 33%. He's a poor shooter. If he was an 80%+ FT shooter, I might be talked into there being a good shooter in there, but he's not.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Oct 8, 2018 15:39:37 GMT -6
Dane Moore has a really good podcast for Wolves coverage and he brought up something that I haven't heard from others but I think is likely true. They were talking about Butler vs. Wiggins and why Andrew can't or won't ever be that player. The big thing that is talked about is hustle, energy, whatever you want to go with. But Dane said Andrew does not have the IQ to be that good of a basketball player. It wasn't a complete knock on his intelligence but in basketball terms, he will never possess any ability to think beyond just him having the ball and doing what he wants with it with no regard to anyone else on the court. Basketball is a tool for him to get rich. It's not a sport he has any real natural instinct for or any ability to understand other than the basic concept of what he is doing with the ball and how to score. I believe one of the reasons that analytics help to project players overall success is that the numbers actually indirectly measure basketball IQ. The reason that rebounds and incremental percentages matter so much is that they're showing whether a player consistently understands positioning to get that extra rebound or the anticipation of making a steal/block.
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