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Post by firethibs on Nov 11, 2018 16:26:00 GMT -6
I'm someone who wants to either build a team for a championship run and if there doesn't appear to be a path to reach a championship - I tend to want to blow it up and rebuild. Easy for me to say as I don't have to cover the losses during all those rebuilding years like Taylor would have to.
Really curious to see if anybody can layout a scenario where we are competing for a championship in the next 4 years? I know with KAT - we are off to a pretty good start. And by 2023, Golden State's run will be over and the West might not be that great. But, we probably won't have any high picks or cap space between now and then
Would love to hear what others think would have to happen for us to truly compete for a 'ship.
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Post by Bonecrusher on Nov 11, 2018 20:36:36 GMT -6
There are several and I will go by importance.
1. Get rid of Thibs. Absolutely get rid of Thibs. 2. Trade or get rid of Teague. I don't know that Tyus is the man since he's not Thib's player but I am interested how he does with a new coach. 3. Wiggins for Porter if Washington is interested. 4. See what it would take to get Kemba Walker in a Wolves uniform. 5. Release any and all former Bull players. Rose would win us a few games but lose us 3 times the amount he wins. Taj isn't there for scoring. Deng doesn't play. Get some youngsters on the bench and see what they can do in blowout games.
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Post by cory on Nov 11, 2018 20:44:25 GMT -6
I'm someone who wants to either build a team for a championship run and if there doesn't appear to be a path to reach a championship - I tend to want to blow it up and rebuild. Easy for me to say as I don't have to cover the losses during all those rebuilding years like Taylor would have to. Really curious to see if anybody can layout a scenario where we are competing for a championship in the next 4 years? I know with KAT - we are off to a pretty good start. And by 2023, Golden State's run will be over and the West might not be that great. But, we probably won't have any high picks or cap space between now and then Would love to hear what others think would have to happen for us to truly compete for a 'ship. For small market teams, it will always come down to the draft. We will likely have at least two lottery picks, 2019 and 2020 as I do not see us making the playoffs this year or next. You have to hit on those picks for anything to have a chance. They don't have to be stars but they have to capable rotation players from an early age who have value in trades that could come up. If you get a chance at Zion or Barrett, then 2023 is not that much of a long shot anymore. Wiggins developing into a dominant scorer and consistent player would be the other way for things to progress rapidly. I don't see it but others will make that argument. I would be more inclined to say we should hold a fire sale of any long term contract and try to max out cap space for 2020 and 2021 and use the two lottery picks for maximum affect. I'm not saying we tank but we need to reposition this team and we should be a bottom 7 or 8 team in the league to give KAT the best chance to succeed at the end of his 5 year deal. Outside of the draft and dumping contracts, find guys who can be rotation pieces on value contracts or who maybe haven't peaked. CC brought up Denzel Valentine but any young guy who is on the tail end of his rookie deal but has not really stood out would be good additions to see where we can maximize value. Our money is going to be extremely tight through 2020 so you have to find swing for the fence guys in anyway possible and they need to be on rookie scale contracts. The Wolves desperately need a reformatting of the league in my opinion. We would be one of the biggest beneficiaries of a league that switched to a top 16 format or had 3 total conferences (West, Central, East) that changed how the playoffs are done entirely. I believe we are usually near the top in league travel per year and we will continue to get beat up by the teams out West for the foreseeable future. We may still be a playoff team in the East with our roster after the Butler trade though.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 11, 2018 21:07:41 GMT -6
I'm someone who wants to either build a team for a championship run and if there doesn't appear to be a path to reach a championship - I tend to want to blow it up and rebuild. Easy for me to say as I don't have to cover the losses during all those rebuilding years like Taylor would have to. Really curious to see if anybody can layout a scenario where we are competing for a championship in the next 4 years? I know with KAT - we are off to a pretty good start. And by 2023, Golden State's run will be over and the West might not be that great. But, we probably won't have any high picks or cap space between now and then Would love to hear what others think would have to happen for us to truly compete for a 'ship. For small market teams, it will always come down to the draft. We will likely have at least two lottery picks, 2019 and 2020 as I do not see us making the playoffs this year or next. You have to hit on those picks for anything to have a chance. They don't have to be stars but they have to capable rotation players from an early age who have value in trades that could come up. If you get a chance at Zion or Barrett, then 2023 is not that much of a long shot anymore. Wiggins developing into a dominant scorer and consistent player would be the other way for things to progress rapidly. I don't see it but others will make that argument. I would be more inclined to say we should hold a fire sale of any long term contract and try to max out cap space for 2020 and 2021 and use the two lottery picks for maximum affect. I'm not saying we tank but we need to reposition this team and we should be a bottom 7 or 8 team in the league to give KAT the best chance to succeed at the end of his 5 year deal. Outside of the draft and dumping contracts, find guys who can be rotation pieces on value contracts or who maybe haven't peaked. CC brought up Denzel Valentine but any young guy who is on the tail end of his rookie deal but has not really stood out would be good additions to see where we can maximize value. Our money is going to be extremely tight through 2020 so you have to find swing for the fence guys in anyway possible and they need to be on rookie scale contracts. The Wolves desperately need a reformatting of the league in my opinion. We would be one of the biggest beneficiaries of a league that switched to a top 16 format or had 3 total conferences (West, Central, East) that changed how the playoffs are done entirely. I believe we are usually near the top in league travel per year and we will continue to get beat up by the teams out West for the foreseeable future. We may still be a playoff team in the East with our roster after the Butler trade though. In order to really compete our coaches need to squeeze more points out of our bench. Night after night it seems we're outscored by 15.
I'm watching a teriffic game tonight Mil-Denver. Both these teams space the floor beautifully and run set after set. Drive and kick for 3 too. It's great to watch. We need that from our next coach.
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Post by boognish on Nov 12, 2018 9:52:43 GMT -6
I'm someone who wants to either build a team for a championship run and if there doesn't appear to be a path to reach a championship - I tend to want to blow it up and rebuild. Easy for me to say as I don't have to cover the losses during all those rebuilding years like Taylor would have to. Really curious to see if anybody can layout a scenario where we are competing for a championship in the next 4 years? I know with KAT - we are off to a pretty good start. And by 2023, Golden State's run will be over and the West might not be that great. But, we probably won't have any high picks or cap space between now and then Would love to hear what others think would have to happen for us to truly compete for a 'ship. The Wolves desperately need a reformatting of the league in my opinion. We would be one of the biggest beneficiaries of a league that switched to a top 16 format or had 3 total conferences (West, Central, East) that changed how the playoffs are done entirely. I believe we are usually near the top in league travel per year and we will continue to get beat up by the teams out West for the foreseeable future. We may still be a playoff team in the East with our roster after the Butler trade though. I agree. I hear people talk about this every year, but there doesn't seem to be any real discussion at the executive/ownership level. What do you think the odds of this ever happening are?
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Post by cory on Nov 12, 2018 16:46:12 GMT -6
The Wolves desperately need a reformatting of the league in my opinion. We would be one of the biggest beneficiaries of a league that switched to a top 16 format or had 3 total conferences (West, Central, East) that changed how the playoffs are done entirely. I believe we are usually near the top in league travel per year and we will continue to get beat up by the teams out West for the foreseeable future. We may still be a playoff team in the East with our roster after the Butler trade though. I agree. I hear people talk about this every year, but there doesn't seem to be any real discussion at the executive/ownership level. What do you think the odds of this ever happening are? I think the league is considering a big shake up but this change would have to happen at the same time as an expansion of possibly two franchises and a complete reconstruction of the league. If two of those teams are in the West, we could just be slid to the East but does that make more sense than Memphis or New Orleans? I think Silver is more open to a radical change and giving teams a smaller conference protection where the top 3 or 4 teams are guaranteed spots in the East, Central, and West with best W/L or a small play in tournament deciding the final 4 teams could enhance a TV package considerably. People want to see the best teams compete and if the final 4 or 9 seeds are really good teams that fell outside of the top 3 in any conference, the matchups could become much more compelling. It will come down to money. If you can make a compelling case for that, owners would listen.
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Post by kingsxman on Nov 17, 2018 9:53:03 GMT -6
It can happen but we have to take a chance:
1. New coach and GM. This is a must. We have to stop coaching and GMing for the present and look to the future. THat said...I dont think we need a rebuild. 2. Wiggins has to improve or be traded. Wiggins for Porter is interesting..but Porter seems like he is a high usage guy and will complain if he isnt getting his touches. This may be where we have to take a chance that Wiggs improves. 3. Okogie has to turn into a stud. I think this is possible. Okogie has shown all the signs of being a really good player in this league. Defensively he's already there I believe. He will only get better. Offsensively the thing I like the most is he isnt afraid to take shots. He is a confident young man and that will only help him. I think he can turn into our own Jimmy Butler. And I think he can be that by year 3. 4. Luck. We are a team valid of good luck in most cases...that has to change. We need to finally be able to hit on the right coach and hit on some late firsts or 2nd round picks. Some may say that this is more talent evaluation...and thats true...there is a certain amount of luck involved in your deciding between a few people and maybe the guy you really wanted goes right before your pick..and you get stuck with the 2nd guy on your list who turns into a stud. We are unlucky in that we have the talent to be a title contender in Towns/Wiggins...but our bad luck is that Wiggins doesnt have the "dog" in him required to reach his potential. We need some luck in that Wiggins figures it out while with us rather than with someone else. 5. Take a chance. Maybe get a Fultz on the cheap and hope you can turn him into something. This all ties into luck.
With how were playing right now....It shows we have a decent team that with the right leadership can be better.
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Post by cory on Nov 17, 2018 10:04:58 GMT -6
It can happen but we have to take a chance: 1. New coach and GM. This is a must. We have to stop coaching and GMing for the present and look to the future. THat said...I dont think we need a rebuild. 2. Wiggins has to improve or be traded. Wiggins for Porter is interesting..but Porter seems like he is a high usage guy and will complain if he isnt getting his touches. This may be where we have to take a chance that Wiggs improves. 3. Okogie has to turn into a stud. I think this is possible. Okogie has shown all the signs of being a really good player in this league. Defensively he's already there I believe. He will only get better. Offsensively the thing I like the most is he isnt afraid to take shots. He is a confident young man and that will only help him. I think he can turn into our own Jimmy Butler. And I think he can be that by year 3. 4. Luck. We are a team valid of good luck in most cases...that has to change. We need to finally be able to hit on the right coach and hit on some late firsts or 2nd round picks. Some may say that this is more talent evaluation...and thats true...there is a certain amount of luck involved in your deciding between a few people and maybe the guy you really wanted goes right before your pick..and you get stuck with the 2nd guy on your list who turns into a stud. We are unlucky in that we have the talent to be a title contender in Towns/Wiggins...but our bad luck is that Wiggins doesnt have the "dog" in him required to reach his potential. We need some luck in that Wiggins figures it out while with us rather than with someone else. 5. Take a chance. Maybe get a Fultz on the cheap and hope you can turn him into something. This all ties into luck. With how were playing right now....It shows we have a decent team that with the right leadership can be better. I keep thinking about Fultz too. He's completely broken but man I would love to gamble on him in a no pressure spot. I don't think he's the answer but the scenario where Fultz hits his potential is the guy that would be a fit here. I think the biggest get that this franchise needs is a lead combo guard and that is the type of guy who can be found in the draft where we will likely be at (8-16). Think of the recent draft slots of guys like McCollum, Booker, SGA, Lavine, Gary Harris, Rozier, Levert, Jamal Murray, Donovan Mitchell, and more and with the exception of Murray who was picked 7th, everyone was drafted at 10 or lower. And many of these guys are already stars or on that path. Our greatest need seems to be the position where you can extract the most value of based on where we are likely to have lottery/draft picks the next couple of years. We have to hit on some of those guys.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 17, 2018 14:50:44 GMT -6
I'm someone who wants to either build a team for a championship run and if there doesn't appear to be a path to reach a championship - I tend to want to blow it up and rebuild. Easy for me to say as I don't have to cover the losses during all those rebuilding years like Taylor would have to. Really curious to see if anybody can layout a scenario where we are competing for a championship in the next 4 years? I know with KAT - we are off to a pretty good start. And by 2023, Golden State's run will be over and the West might not be that great. But, we probably won't have any high picks or cap space between now and then Would love to hear what others think would have to happen for us to truly compete for a 'ship. Our time to win is right now. We have plenty of talent. It just needs to be coached right. Covington will make both Towns and Wigs better where Jimmy made them worse.
I can see it now. "From out of the ashes, the MN Timberwolves......
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