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Post by tmill720 on Aug 23, 2023 13:45:19 GMT -6
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Post by darko on Aug 23, 2023 14:38:15 GMT -6
Hanes are back.
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Post by Nick K on Aug 23, 2023 17:19:08 GMT -6
He's not a max guy David. He's much closer to a max offer guy than he is to a Naz Reid level guy. You start with a Naz Reid level offer I would guess he's so insulted it damages the relationship to the point where he doesn't return. Cam Johnson is $27M a year. I would bet that is where negotiations start at if I'm the McDaniels camp and almost double what Naz is making. Jaden is a far more complete player, younger, and has dramatically more upside than Cam. The Mikal Bridges contract that gets cited very often is not a good benchmark anymore and was likely a bad deal for Bridges the second he signed it. There's a good chance that Jaden having made dramatically less as a low first rounder than others is going to drive a harder bargain than a lot of comps we have heard. I do find it funny the Cam Johnson deal rarely is cited as a comp when he just inked it 2 months ago. I bet McDaniels ends up at $28 or 29M a year when it wraps up. You might be right. I was probably low there with the Reid comp. I was thinking Reid at 15 mil but I see Jaden @ 15-20mil as reasonable for now. He's so young. He has plenty of years to make big bucks. Like 15-20 mil per ain't big bucks. Sheesh!
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Post by levine on Aug 23, 2023 17:22:45 GMT -6
He's much closer to a max offer guy than he is to a Naz Reid level guy. You start with a Naz Reid level offer I would guess he's so insulted it damages the relationship to the point where he doesn't return. Cam Johnson is $27M a year. I would bet that is where negotiations start at if I'm the McDaniels camp and almost double what Naz is making. Jaden is a far more complete player, younger, and has dramatically more upside than Cam. The Mikal Bridges contract that gets cited very often is not a good benchmark anymore and was likely a bad deal for Bridges the second he signed it. There's a good chance that Jaden having made dramatically less as a low first rounder than others is going to drive a harder bargain than a lot of comps we have heard. I do find it funny the Cam Johnson deal rarely is cited as a comp when he just inked it 2 months ago. I bet McDaniels ends up at $28 or 29M a year when it wraps up. You might be right. I was probably low there with the Reid comp. I was thinking Reid at 15 mil but I see Jaden @ 15-20mil as reasonable for now. He's so young. He has plenty of years to make big bucks. Like 15-20 mil per ain't big bucks. Sheesh!
And when has this ever happened? When has a young, ascending player left tens of millions of dollars on the table because "he has plenty of years left"? Every year you expect some young Timberwolf to take a well below market value contract and it hasn't happened yet. There is no chance he takes 10-15M. He likely won't take 25. t take 25.
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Post by Nick K on Aug 23, 2023 17:47:17 GMT -6
You might be right. I was probably low there with the Reid comp. I was thinking Reid at 15 mil but I see Jaden @ 15-20mil as reasonable for now. He's so young. He has plenty of years to make big bucks. Like 15-20 mil per ain't big bucks. Sheesh!
And when has this ever happened? When has a young, ascending player left tens of millions of dollars on the table because "he has plenty of years left"? Every year you expect some young Timberwolf to take a well below market value contract and it hasn't happened yet. There is no chance he takes 10-15M. He likely won't take 25. Yep, I say it every year. How much is enough? I think it's almost immoral paying sports guys this kind of money. But that's just me David. When will the bubble burst? Paying $15 for a beer. $30 to park, $150 for a decent seat?
Paying $1500 to see Taylor Swift? I do realize things and people are worth what others are willing to pay but the world has gone mad.
David, you've got to understand I'm a 68 year old dinosaur. I remember a pack of baseball cards and candy bars for a nickel.
The bubble will burst one day and when it does you will live in a much different world. If we don't learn from history we will be doomed to repeat it.
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Post by levine on Aug 23, 2023 17:59:57 GMT -6
So what do you tell him?
"We don't think you're worth anywhere near what your contemporaries got."
If we capped our offer at 20M, there would be 29 other teams doing anything it takes to sign him for more.
If he took 20M, he would be absolutely crucified by the Players Association and most NBA players for devaluing NBA contracts.
I'm sure you said the same things when Kirby signed a three-year, $9 million deal - making him baseball's highest-paid player.
And again when KG signed an historic $126 million deal.
Salaries go up because the money goes up.
Going back to KG. In 2012 his 17 year, 328M life-time earnings was the most of any player in NBA history. Jaylen Brown just signed a deal that will pay him 304M over the next 5 years.
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Post by cory on Aug 24, 2023 8:12:13 GMT -6
And when has this ever happened? When has a young, ascending player left tens of millions of dollars on the table because "he has plenty of years left"? Every year you expect some young Timberwolf to take a well below market value contract and it hasn't happened yet. There is no chance he takes 10-15M. He likely won't take 25. Yep, I say it every year. How much is enough? I think it's almost immoral paying sports guys this kind of money. But that's just me David. When will the bubble burst? Paying $15 for a beer. $30 to park, $150 for a decent seat?
Paying $1500 to see Taylor Swift? I do realize things and people are worth what others are willing to pay but the world has gone mad.
David, you've got to understand I'm a 68 year old dinosaur. I remember a pack of baseball cards and candy bars for a nickel.
The bubble will burst one day and when it does you will live in a much different world. If we don't learn from history we will be doomed to repeat it.
Ask the owners to take less Nick. Not the players. The players are responsible for the product. The owners are responsible for the dollars in the business. You watch the players. You hate the cash. It's not a player issue. And Jaden should hold out for what his market value is. Good for him for doing so also.
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Post by jojo on Aug 24, 2023 8:42:41 GMT -6
A couple things could drive his price down a bit. His counting stats weren’t super impressive, and while he was lauded for his defense, he didn’t make an all-D team. His 3 pt shooting took a leap, but it’s just one year from being mediocre and 3 pt shooting can be volatile from year to year. As compared to a guy like Cam Johnson who’s stats are significantly higher in major categories, and has had some big scoring games. Plus he wasn’t able to show out in the playoffs which could have boosted his stock. Don’t get me wrong I love the guy and he’s on a great trajectory, but I don’t think it’s a slam dunk he gets more than 25M per and could end up being a little less.
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Post by Nick K on Aug 24, 2023 13:29:09 GMT -6
So what do you tell him? "We don't think you're worth anywhere near what your contemporaries got." If we capped our offer at 20M, there would be 29 other teams doing anything it takes to sign him for more. If he took 20M, he would be absolutely crucified by the Players Association and most NBA players for devaluing NBA contracts. I'm sure you said the same things when Kirby signed a three-year, $9 million deal - making him baseball's highest-paid player. And again when KG signed an historic $126 million deal. Salaries go up because the money goes up. Going back to KG. In 2012 his 17 year, 328M life-time earnings was the most of any player in NBA history. Jaylen Brown just signed a deal that will pay him 304M over the next 5 years. I'd tell him to work with us. We'll still pay you a fortune. Your day will come very soon. There has to be enough to go around for everyone. Your numbers aren't Kat or Ant like and you know that so lets not get totally crazy. Plus if you go somewhere else you just might find the grass isn't greener. You might hate the coach or they don't use you the way they want. There are a million things that can be negative. Consider that this is your family right here. We'll pay you a small fortune anyway. You'll be set for life. Play a couple more years and if you continue to develop then we'll pay you even more. Don't be greedy.
That's what I'd tell him.
Jaylen Brown has been putting up huge numbers for years now. When Jaden does that for several years then you can pay him that. That's all I'm saying.
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Post by Nick K on Aug 24, 2023 13:41:30 GMT -6
Yep, I say it every year. How much is enough? I think it's almost immoral paying sports guys this kind of money. But that's just me David. When will the bubble burst? Paying $15 for a beer. $30 to park, $150 for a decent seat?
Paying $1500 to see Taylor Swift? I do realize things and people are worth what others are willing to pay but the world has gone mad.
David, you've got to understand I'm a 68 year old dinosaur. I remember a pack of baseball cards and candy bars for a nickel.
The bubble will burst one day and when it does you will live in a much different world. If we don't learn from history we will be doomed to repeat it.
Ask the owners to take less Nick. Not the players. The players are responsible for the product. The owners are responsible for the dollars in the business. You watch the players. You hate the cash. It's not a player issue. And Jaden should hold out for what his market value is. Good for him for doing so also. I hear ya. Your right. The owners pay them but the players do have them over a barrel. I can understand the player trying to get all they can but the players should use some restraint. How much will their life change if they get 18 mil vs 22 mil?
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Post by levine on Aug 24, 2023 14:12:27 GMT -6
So what do you tell him? "We don't think you're worth anywhere near what your contemporaries got." If we capped our offer at 20M, there would be 29 other teams doing anything it takes to sign him for more. If he took 20M, he would be absolutely crucified by the Players Association and most NBA players for devaluing NBA contracts. I'm sure you said the same things when Kirby signed a three-year, $9 million deal - making him baseball's highest-paid player. And again when KG signed an historic $126 million deal. Salaries go up because the money goes up. Going back to KG. In 2012 his 17 year, 328M life-time earnings was the most of any player in NBA history. Jaylen Brown just signed a deal that will pay him 304M over the next 5 years. I'd tell him to work with us. We'll still pay you a fortune. Your day will come very soon. There has to be enough to go around for everyone. Your numbers aren't Kat or Ant like and you know that so lets not get totally crazy. Plus if you go somewhere else you just might find the grass isn't greener. You might hate the coach or they don't use you the way they want. There are a million things that can be negative. Consider that this is your family right here. We'll pay you a small fortune anyway. You'll be set for life. Play a couple more years and if you continue to develop then we'll pay you even more. Don't be greedy.
That's what I'd tell him.
Jaylen Brown has been putting up huge numbers for years now. When Jaden does that for several years then you can pay him that. That's all I'm saying.
So better to have your integrity than a great young player? This idea that the Timberwolves franchise is such a magical place that its worth taking less money is kind of absurd. And I'm not comparing McDaniels to Brown at all. Just pointing out that the money just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Jaylen Brown, who is a good, but far from great, player just signed a 5 year contract that will pay him almost as much as KG made in his career. And we're talking about 10 years between events.
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Post by Nick K on Aug 24, 2023 15:23:37 GMT -6
I'd tell him to work with us. We'll still pay you a fortune. Your day will come very soon. There has to be enough to go around for everyone. Your numbers aren't Kat or Ant like and you know that so lets not get totally crazy. Plus if you go somewhere else you just might find the grass isn't greener. You might hate the coach or they don't use you the way they want. There are a million things that can be negative. Consider that this is your family right here. We'll pay you a small fortune anyway. You'll be set for life. Play a couple more years and if you continue to develop then we'll pay you even more. Don't be greedy.
That's what I'd tell him.
Jaylen Brown has been putting up huge numbers for years now. When Jaden does that for several years then you can pay him that. That's all I'm saying.
So better to have your integrity than a great young player? This idea that the Timberwolves franchise is such a magical place that its worth taking less money is kind of absurd. And I'm not comparing McDaniels to Brown at all. Just pointing out that the money just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Jaylen Brown, who is a good, but far from great, player just signed a 5 year contract that will pay him almost as much as KG made in his career. And we're talking about 10 years between events. You're entitled to your opinion.
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Post by levine on Aug 24, 2023 15:33:30 GMT -6
So better to have your integrity than a great young player? This idea that the Timberwolves franchise is such a magical place that its worth taking less money is kind of absurd. And I'm not comparing McDaniels to Brown at all. Just pointing out that the money just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Jaylen Brown, who is a good, but far from great, player just signed a 5 year contract that will pay him almost as much as KG made in his career. And we're talking about 10 years between events. You're entitled to your opinion. Its not really opinion... Can you give me an example of a young player leaving 10s of millions on the table because "they're still getting enough money"?
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Post by darko on Aug 24, 2023 15:42:30 GMT -6
Whatever the exact number is probably fine. We know it's going to be in the Herb Jones to Cam Johnson range, and eventually we'll have to decide on Kat, McD, Reid, or Gobert for those that prefer that still.
If his goal is to hold out for more, it will be interesting to see if he gets those reps on this team. Maybe in the second unit, but first group still have a lot of mouths to feed.
I'm sure he could go to another team, and be featured more, what he is trying to prove is he can do that and win a lot of games. It will be interesting to see how Finch balances that, we don't really need McD to be Paul George right now, but I'm sure he would love to develop into that kind of wing, or like Banchero so he can one two with Ant as a true primary initiator.
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Post by darko on Aug 24, 2023 15:47:06 GMT -6
I don't know if McD has it in him to get to where Bridges is, but it's a little like that, where his role in Phoenix is different than Brooklyn, and it probably cost him $.
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Post by Nick K on Aug 25, 2023 8:13:56 GMT -6
You're entitled to your opinion. Its not really opinion... Can you give me an example of a young player leaving 10s of millions on the table because "they're still getting enough money"? Reid took less to stay here from what I understand.
I'm not talking about a huge difference in pay either. Just because you forecast a guy is worth doesn't mean he is worth that.
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Post by levine on Aug 25, 2023 10:01:12 GMT -6
Its not really opinion... Can you give me an example of a young player leaving 10s of millions on the table because "they're still getting enough money"? Reid took less to stay here from what I understand.
I'm not talking about a huge difference in pay either. Just because you forecast a guy is worth doesn't mean he is worth that.
Potentially. I believe he got just more than the MLE and he signed before anyone else could make an offer. If he took less, its a negligible amount. Not 10s of millions. You are talking a HUGE difference if you're at 15-20M for McDaniels.
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Post by levine on Aug 28, 2023 15:06:21 GMT -6
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Post by darko on Aug 28, 2023 15:33:48 GMT -6
What is this the heat extremes in Maui?
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Post by levine on Aug 29, 2023 11:05:45 GMT -6
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Post by levine on Aug 29, 2023 11:47:50 GMT -6
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Post by levine on Sept 1, 2023 11:28:00 GMT -6
Predicting NBA's Top 100 Players for 2023-24 SeasonJaden McDaniels — No. 97 Last year’s rank (N/A)The Minnesota Timberwolves' 2022-23 campaign didn't go quite as planned after their blockbuster trade for Rudy Gobert last offseason, but Jaden McDaniels was one of the few bright spots. The 22-year-old averaged a career-high 12.1 points per game on 51.7 percent shooting, and he ranked in the 91st percentile leaguewide in Dunks and Threes' defensive estimated plus/minus despite taking on some of the NBA's toughest defensive assignments. McDaniels missed the playoffs last year after suffering a broken hand in Minnesota's regular-season finale, which prevented his coming-out party on a national stage. Regardless, the Wolves figure to sign him to an extension by the Oct. 23 deadline, as he projects to be a cornerstone alongside Anthony Edwards moving forward. Rudy Gobert — No. 62 Last year’s rank: 20thAfter ranking no lower than the 94th percentile in Dunks and Threes' estimated plus-minus from 2014-15 to 2021-22 (and no lower than the 98th percentile in defensive estimated plus-minus), Rudy Gobert finally took a step back in both metrics in 2022-23. However, the 31-year-old is still 7'1", as good as any big at reading an offense and one of the game's most fearsome rim protectors. Tune into any Minnesota Timberwolves game this season and you'll see a few opposing drivers enter the paint, see Gobert and do an abrupt U-turn back to the perimeter. Karl-Anthony Towns — No. 23 Last Year’s rank: 16thKarl-Anthony Towns entered the 2022-23 season widely considered a top-20 player, including 16th in B/R's rankings. His drop in this year's version is warranted. Towns' effective field-goal percentage, points and rebounds per game significantly dropped as he was forced to adjust his game while playing next to Rudy Gobert. The 2015 No. 1 pick also had the worst net-rating swing of his career and he missed more than 50 games with a calf strain. As a center, Towns' offense exploits only fall short of those of Nikola Jokić and Joel Embiid. But as a power forward, Towns' effectiveness is limited with Gobert clogging the paint. Towns is still an elite talent capable of dominating any game, but he simply has one of the worst offensive setups among star players. Anthony Edwards — No. 15 Last Year’s ranking: 26thWhile Anthony Edwards’ jump in our final Top 100 rankings is notable, it’s fair to wonder if we’ve actually placed Edwards too low. That includes being outside the top five of guards. Currently the best player on Team USA despite having just turned 22 years old, Edwards is the next great NBA shooting guard and should push Devin Booker for the title of league’s best already this season. At ages 20 and 21, Edwards gained playoff experience with series of 25.2 points and 31.6 points, respectively, showing his ability to only get better when the lights get brighter. He turned in his best defensive season in 2022-23 as well and could become an All-Defensive team member in a few years. bleacherreport.com/articles/10087588-predicting-nbas-top-100-players-for-2023-24-season
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Post by levine on Sept 4, 2023 22:52:08 GMT -6
The Minnesota Timberwolves have agreed to an Exhibit 10 deal with Javonte Cooke.
Cooke played for the Iowa Wolves of the G League last season.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Sept 5, 2023 12:07:20 GMT -6
Not sure if this was discussed in another thread or if it should go here in general...
I'm not going to share links to the pod or article so not to drive views, but apparently Pat Bev said on a podcast and then The Athletic did an article on how Ant needs a bigger stage than MN to reach his full potential.
It's already starting. Blerg.
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Post by levine on Sept 5, 2023 12:24:18 GMT -6
Meh.
PatBev will say anything to draw attention.
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