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Post by tmill720 on Jan 26, 2024 10:57:49 GMT -6
If we're trading KAT, we absolutely should not be put in a position where Garza or Miller sniffs the court. We're either getting a veteran starter back plus younger intriguing depth (like a Bojan Bogdanovic and Jaden Ivey deal), or a like-for-like deal to shuffle the deck with similar fringe stars (Dejounte, Lavine, Randle, Jerami Grant, Sabonis - type players). We have a really good team right now. KAT is an important part of this team - no way we win last night without him. Having him disappear for picks just seems like punting on Rudy/Conley. So why would we not get something back that is starter-quality in a KAT deal? If we can't get starter quality back? Then I'm keeping him because that's just trading him for trading him's sake at that point. I get what you are saying but to me it's apparent we really need to move either KAT or ANT. For whatever reason they acquiesce to each other instead of having an alpha they have 2 beta's and that's a bad thing. If Conley was an Alpha or Gobert was the alpha it would work better but it appears the pecking order is KAT/ANT as shared #1. It's time to trade one of them and Reid stepping up to the starting spot keeps the time frame current. But if Monte Morris is available or gettable as Levine is indicating we should be doing what is necessary to get him to replace Conley. I think the main problem is just that Ant is 22. The 62 point game was obviously a blip for KAT, but I actually think he's been deferring to Ant just fine and has settled into that #2 role. It's more like Ant just doesn't quite have the experience to know what to do in every single situation - and no one really does at this stage of their career! Ant has shown continued growth over his tenure here and there is no reason to think he won't continue to grow. Ant has only really deferred to KAT in his 62 point game, otherwise, like last night he's just jacking up tough mid range/step backs throughout the 4th quarter as he tries to assert himself as the #1. You absolutely need a 2nd offensive star to pair with Ant. Luka has Kyrie. Lebron has AD. Giannis has Dame. Jokic has Murray. One guy just can't carry the load for all 48 minutes, all 82 games plus the postseason. Depending on Ant for even 32 minutes a night for 82 games is a fools errand - what if he has an off-night? What if he's sick or injured? Why wouldn't they just double him even if he was active? Then we have who, 37 year old Conley as our main offensive weapon? Naz is fine, but he's definitely more inconsistent 6th man than a truly reliable starter. |
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Post by levine on Jan 26, 2024 11:12:49 GMT -6
Not necessarily. Reid moves to the starting spot and he has no problem shooting the 3 from the corners or the top of the key therefore opening up driving lanes and or spreading the defense. Garza or Miller should be ready to step in on the second unit. May not be as productive as Reid but they need some experience. We really need a younger PG that can learn under Conley but also take over and produce. If we're trading KAT, we absolutely should not be put in a position where Garza or Miller sniffs the court. We're either getting a veteran starter back plus younger intriguing depth (like a Bojan Bogdanovic and Jaden Ivey deal), or a like-for-like deal to shuffle the deck with similar fringe stars (Dejounte, Lavine, Randle, Jerami Grant, Sabonis - type players). We have a really good team right now. KAT is an important part of this team - no way we win last night without him. Having him disappear for picks just seems like punting on Rudy/Conley. So why would we not get something back that is starter-quality in a KAT deal? If we can't get starter quality back? Then I'm keeping him because that's just trading him for trading him's sake at that point. 100%. If you aren't getting at least one quality starter back for KAT, you're punting on the season. |
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Post by levine on Jan 26, 2024 11:15:07 GMT -6
If we're trading KAT, we absolutely should not be put in a position where Garza or Miller sniffs the court. We're either getting a veteran starter back plus younger intriguing depth (like a Bojan Bogdanovic and Jaden Ivey deal), or a like-for-like deal to shuffle the deck with similar fringe stars (Dejounte, Lavine, Randle, Jerami Grant, Sabonis - type players). We have a really good team right now. KAT is an important part of this team - no way we win last night without him. Having him disappear for picks just seems like punting on Rudy/Conley. So why would we not get something back that is starter-quality in a KAT deal? If we can't get starter quality back? Then I'm keeping him because that's just trading him for trading him's sake at that point. I get what you are saying but to me it's apparent we really need to move either KAT or ANT. For whatever reason they acquiesce to each other instead of having an alpha they have 2 beta's and that's a bad thing. If Conley was an Alpha or Gobert was the alpha it would work better but it appears the pecking order is KAT/ANT as shared #1. It's time to trade one of them and Reid stepping up to the starting spot keeps the time frame current. But if Monte Morris is available or gettable as Levine is indicating we should be doing what is necessary to get him to replace Conley. Disagree. Its not an Ant/KAT problem. Its an Ant problem. He has no idea how to play in the 4th quarter. He needs to learn to look for his teammates early in possessions. It doesn't mean he won't be taking the shot still, but he seems to really not understand that if he gives the ball up and then gets it back he will almost always be in a better offensive position than if he just holds the ball and lets the defense set against him. |
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 26, 2024 11:23:44 GMT -6
I get what you are saying but to me it's apparent we really need to move either KAT or ANT. For whatever reason they acquiesce to each other instead of having an alpha they have 2 beta's and that's a bad thing. If Conley was an Alpha or Gobert was the alpha it would work better but it appears the pecking order is KAT/ANT as shared #1. It's time to trade one of them and Reid stepping up to the starting spot keeps the time frame current. But if Monte Morris is available or gettable as Levine is indicating we should be doing what is necessary to get him to replace Conley. I think the main problem is just that Ant is 22. The 62 point game was obviously a blip for KAT, but I actually think he's been deferring to Ant just fine and has settled into that #2 role. It's more like Ant just doesn't quite have the experience to know what to do in every single situation - and no one really does at this stage of their career! Ant has shown continued growth over his tenure here and there is no reason to think he won't continue to grow. Ant has only really deferred to KAT in his 62 point game, otherwise, like last night he's just jacking up tough mid range/step backs throughout the 4th quarter as he tries to assert himself as the #1. You absolutely need a 2nd offensive star to pair with Ant. Luka has Kyrie. Lebron has AD. Giannis has Dame. Jokic has Murray. One guy just can't carry the load for all 48 minutes, all 82 games plus the postseason. Depending on Ant for even 32 minutes a night for 82 games is a fools errand - what if he has an off-night? What if he's sick or injured? Why wouldn't they just double him even if he was active? Then we have who, 37 year old Conley as our main offensive weapon? Naz is fine, but he's definitely more inconsistent 6th man than a truly reliable starter. You need to get back a starter for KAT. No doubt about it. I do believe that KAT has accepted the #2 role behind Ant. However, the big thing that we keep not mentioning is that KAT will make 50 million next year. For example, you could have 2-25 million players instead of KAT. Not that you'd get him, but Bruson is only making 25 million. Lots of good 25 million a year players that fit the bill. BTW, for all the hoopla.....Kat back to shooting 2 for 3 on 3 pointers last night. He took 3 flipping 3's after admitting that the coaching staff wants him to take more 3's. |
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 26, 2024 11:24:56 GMT -6
I get what you are saying but to me it's apparent we really need to move either KAT or ANT. For whatever reason they acquiesce to each other instead of having an alpha they have 2 beta's and that's a bad thing. If Conley was an Alpha or Gobert was the alpha it would work better but it appears the pecking order is KAT/ANT as shared #1. It's time to trade one of them and Reid stepping up to the starting spot keeps the time frame current. But if Monte Morris is available or gettable as Levine is indicating we should be doing what is necessary to get him to replace Conley. Disagree. Its not an Ant/KAT problem. Its an Ant problem. He has no idea how to play in the 4th quarter. He needs to learn to look for his teammates early in possessions. It doesn't mean he won't be taking the shot still, but he seems to really not understand that if he gives the ball up and then gets it back he will almost always be in a better offensive position than if he just holds the ball and lets the defense set against him. Agreed. But both Ant and KAT need to learn to know what they are going to do with the ball BEFORE they get it. KAT has gotten much better. Ant is still very very bad at this and it hurts the team. |
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Post by levine on Jan 26, 2024 11:32:20 GMT -6
BTW, for all the hoopla.....Kat back to shooting 2 for 3 on 3 pointers last night. He took 3 flipping 3's after admitting that the coaching staff wants him to take more 3's. And he was right to do so, as I detailed in the other thread. I want KAT shooting more 3s overall, but going all "Randy Ratio" on it is not the way. |
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 26, 2024 11:42:41 GMT -6
I think the main problem is just that Ant is 22. The 62 point game was obviously a blip for KAT, but I actually think he's been deferring to Ant just fine and has settled into that #2 role. It's more like Ant just doesn't quite have the experience to know what to do in every single situation - and no one really does at this stage of their career! Ant has shown continued growth over his tenure here and there is no reason to think he won't continue to grow. Ant has only really deferred to KAT in his 62 point game, otherwise, like last night he's just jacking up tough mid range/step backs throughout the 4th quarter as he tries to assert himself as the #1. You absolutely need a 2nd offensive star to pair with Ant. Luka has Kyrie. Lebron has AD. Giannis has Dame. Jokic has Murray. One guy just can't carry the load for all 48 minutes, all 82 games plus the postseason. Depending on Ant for even 32 minutes a night for 82 games is a fools errand - what if he has an off-night? What if he's sick or injured? Why wouldn't they just double him even if he was active? Then we have who, 37 year old Conley as our main offensive weapon? Naz is fine, but he's definitely more inconsistent 6th man than a truly reliable starter. You need to get back a starter for KAT. No doubt about it. I do believe that KAT has accepted the #2 role behind Ant. However, the big thing that we keep not mentioning is that KAT will make 50 million next year. For example, you could have 2-25 million players instead of KAT. Not that you'd get him, but Bruson is only making 25 million. Lots of good 25 million a year players that fit the bill. BTW, for all the hoopla.....Kat back to shooting 2 for 3 on 3 pointers last night. He took 3 flipping 3's after admitting that the coaching staff wants him to take more 3's. Oh absolutely. I mentioned the veteran starter plus emerging young player as a type of deal we could get for him, Bogdanovic + Ivey for example. I was more disagreeing with trading KAT just for picks and cap space. |
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Post by levine on Jan 26, 2024 11:49:46 GMT -6
You need to get back a starter for KAT. No doubt about it. I do believe that KAT has accepted the #2 role behind Ant. However, the big thing that we keep not mentioning is that KAT will make 50 million next year. For example, you could have 2-25 million players instead of KAT. Not that you'd get him, but Bruson is only making 25 million. Lots of good 25 million a year players that fit the bill. BTW, for all the hoopla.....Kat back to shooting 2 for 3 on 3 pointers last night. He took 3 flipping 3's after admitting that the coaching staff wants him to take more 3's. Oh absolutely. I mentioned the veteran starter plus emerging young player as a type of deal we could get for him, Bogdanovic + Ivey for example. I was more disagreeing with trading KAT just for picks and cap space. For sure. There is a huge difference between getting, say, Quickley and Reddish vs draft picks. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 26, 2024 11:50:12 GMT -6
I get what you are saying but to me it's apparent we really need to move either KAT or ANT. For whatever reason they acquiesce to each other instead of having an alpha they have 2 beta's and that's a bad thing. If Conley was an Alpha or Gobert was the alpha it would work better but it appears the pecking order is KAT/ANT as shared #1. It's time to trade one of them and Reid stepping up to the starting spot keeps the time frame current. But if Monte Morris is available or gettable as Levine is indicating we should be doing what is necessary to get him to replace Conley. Disagree. Its not an Ant/KAT problem. Its an Ant problem. He has no idea how to play in the 4th quarter. He needs to learn to look for his teammates early in possessions. It doesn't mean he won't be taking the shot still, but he seems to really not understand that if he gives the ball up and then gets it back he will almost always be in a better offensive position than if he just holds the ball and lets the defense set against him. Yeah I'm with you on this. I'd say a huge part of why the 4th quarter offense is so bad is because of Ant. It sucks that it's happening, but Connelly is forcing Ant into situations where if he doesn't figure it out, the top team in the West loses. It's trial by fire for Ant, and I think that's going to ultimately be a blessing for the Wolves and Ant. Ant doesn't seem like someone who needs to be coddled along. I'd much rather have Ant in high-pressure situations at 22 than 27 and learning how to navigate those moments. He's going to figure it out. It'll take time and we've seen some of the growing pains, but Ant is probably 2-3 years away from his prime still. We're contending for a championship before he even starts his prime. He'll be ready when the time comes. |
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Post by levine on Jan 26, 2024 11:57:32 GMT -6
Disagree. Its not an Ant/KAT problem. Its an Ant problem. He has no idea how to play in the 4th quarter. He needs to learn to look for his teammates early in possessions. It doesn't mean he won't be taking the shot still, but he seems to really not understand that if he gives the ball up and then gets it back he will almost always be in a better offensive position than if he just holds the ball and lets the defense set against him. Yeah I'm with you on this. I'd say a huge part of why the 4th quarter offense is so bad is because of Ant. It sucks that it's happening, but Connelly is forcing Ant into situations where if he doesn't figure it out, the top team in the West loses. It's trial by fire for Ant, and I think that's going to ultimately be a blessing for the Wolves and Ant. Ant doesn't seem like someone who needs to be coddled along. I'd much rather have Ant in high-pressure situations at 22 than 27 and learning how to navigate those moments. He's going to figure it out. It'll take time and we've seen some of the growing pains, but Ant is probably 2-3 years away from his prime still. We're contending for a championship before he even starts his prime. He'll be ready when the time comes. I agree. I think he'll get it. And I don't think we need to trade KAT to get Ant there. |
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Post by jr on Jan 26, 2024 11:57:51 GMT -6
Disagree. Its not an Ant/KAT problem. Its an Ant problem. He has no idea how to play in the 4th quarter. He needs to learn to look for his teammates early in possessions. It doesn't mean he won't be taking the shot still, but he seems to really not understand that if he gives the ball up and then gets it back he will almost always be in a better offensive position than if he just holds the ball and lets the defense set against him. Agreed. But both Ant and KAT need to learn to know what they are going to do with the ball BEFORE they get it. KAT has gotten much better. Ant is still very very bad at this and it hurts the team. Agreed. I've lost my feeling of, "something good is about to happen" when Ant gets the ball. Too many times the pass to him leads him into an advantage on the defense, but instead of using it, he backs out 3 steps and starts his dribbling routine. The defense has all the time in the world to set up in exactly the way their game plan was coached. And in the meantime his teammates cut, get open, the defense catches up, and the moment passes. So many times I've seen that...so many times... |
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 26, 2024 11:58:24 GMT -6
Disagree. Its not an Ant/KAT problem. Its an Ant problem. He has no idea how to play in the 4th quarter. He needs to learn to look for his teammates early in possessions. It doesn't mean he won't be taking the shot still, but he seems to really not understand that if he gives the ball up and then gets it back he will almost always be in a better offensive position than if he just holds the ball and lets the defense set against him. Yeah I'm with you on this. I'd say a huge part of why the 4th quarter offense is so bad is because of Ant. It sucks that it's happening, but Connelly is forcing Ant into situations where if he doesn't figure it out, the top team in the West loses. It's trial by fire for Ant, and I think that's going to ultimately be a blessing for the Wolves and Ant. Ant doesn't seem like someone who needs to be coddled along. I'd much rather have Ant in high-pressure situations at 22 than 27 and learning how to navigate those moments. He's going to figure it out. It'll take time and we've seen some of the growing pains, but Ant is probably 2-3 years away from his prime still. We're contending for a championship before he even starts his prime. He'll be ready when the time comes. Really wish we could have a few scripted actions to get Ant in a better position to make reads/plays. Seems like he currently has no clue what to do other than isolate on mismatches, which is a not horrible option but just relies on his shotmaking and puts zero pressure on the defense. Plus, it will always be there. It'd be nice if it was like hey Ant, try running off a Rudy screen to see if you can curl and get to the paint. If they cut that off, then do a pick and pop with KAT and see if he's open there or if Jaden's guy leaves him to get KAT. Oh and then maybe try a Rudy pick and roll and see if you can keep the defender on your backside like Shai does to you all the time. If those things don't work, then fine, back out and iso against your guy with the 6 seconds that are left on the clock. But don't just resort to isoing off your guy right away. |
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Post by Nick K on Jan 26, 2024 12:56:16 GMT -6
Yeah I'm with you on this. I'd say a huge part of why the 4th quarter offense is so bad is because of Ant. It sucks that it's happening, but Connelly is forcing Ant into situations where if he doesn't figure it out, the top team in the West loses. It's trial by fire for Ant, and I think that's going to ultimately be a blessing for the Wolves and Ant. Ant doesn't seem like someone who needs to be coddled along. I'd much rather have Ant in high-pressure situations at 22 than 27 and learning how to navigate those moments. He's going to figure it out. It'll take time and we've seen some of the growing pains, but Ant is probably 2-3 years away from his prime still. We're contending for a championship before he even starts his prime. He'll be ready when the time comes. I agree. I think he'll get it. And I don't think we need to trade KAT to get Ant there. David, you are a voice of reason. |
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Post by levine on Jan 26, 2024 12:59:12 GMT -6
I agree. I think he'll get it. And I don't think we need to trade KAT to get Ant there. David, you are a voice of reason. You'll change your mind on that any second... |
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Post by Nick K on Jan 26, 2024 13:20:07 GMT -6
David, you are a voice of reason. You'll change your mind on that any second...  |
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Trade KAT
Jan 26, 2024 18:12:30 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jojo on Jan 26, 2024 18:12:30 GMT -6
I will say this about KAT- he absolutely torches single coverage. If he could just figure out double teams. Ant is the same way.
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 28, 2024 12:54:36 GMT -6
BTW, for all the hoopla.....Kat back to shooting 2 for 3 on 3 pointers last night. He took 3 flipping 3's after admitting that the coaching staff wants him to take more 3's. And he was right to do so, as I detailed in the other thread. I want KAT shooting more 3s overall, but going all "Randy Ratio" on it is not the way. You know what, maybe he needs a bit of "Randy ratio" in his game to get him to do it. I'd rather have him take too many 3's in a game while figuring this thing out than continually not taking enough. Our issues with turning the ball over come from 2 things: stupid plays and congestion. Having some 3 point shooters that people have to guard helps immensely with #2. |
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