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Post by quinn on May 31, 2024 11:26:29 GMT -6
As disappointing of a loss as it was, I don't think this season can be seen as anything but a resounding success.
We came into the year after the Play-In win and getting swept by Denver with an over/under win total of 44.5. We won 56 games and were in 1st place up until the end of the season.
We were underdogs with home court advantage in Round 1 vs Phoenix after going 0-3 against them in the regular season. We swept them. We beat them so bad they fired their coach.
We were underdogs to the defending champions. We stomped them for 2 games in Denver and then after losing 3 straight, came back and beat them twice to win in 7 on their home court.
We made it to the Western Conference Finals for the 2nd time in team history and lost to a much better team who could very well win it all.
Ant was 2nd Team All-NBA at 22. Rudy won his 4th Defensive Player of the Year. Jaden was All-Defensive 2nd Team at 23. Naz Reid won 6th Man of the Year. KAT had a massive bounceback year and won the social justice award. Chris Finch was a finalist for Coach of the Year.
I don't know about all of you, but I'm going to just relish this season for what it was. Last time a Wolves team did this, the darkest 20 years in professional sports hit. There's no guarantee this will happen again, no matter what Ant says. The financial ramifications are coming hot and heavy next season and there's a non-zero chance this roster doesn't return. There's going to be plenty of time to discuss how it all went wrong this series and how the team moves forward, but for now, I'm going to just relish in what was a return to relevance for my favorite basketball team.
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Post by levine on May 31, 2024 11:36:05 GMT -6
Its funny with all the talk about us being built to beat Denver, Dallas accidentally built themselves to beat us with their deadline trades.
Their bigs are smaller than ours, but they're the type we struggled against all year. Quick, springy with great hands.
And with two elite shot creators, we just can't rotate our defense as fast as they move the ball.
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Post by WolvesLife on May 31, 2024 11:53:14 GMT -6
That was our best shot in 20 years of going all the way.. Sucks. Who knows how many good years Rudy has, and who knows what we're gonna be able to do with our cap situation.. I don't love the future beyond this series unless we get a good return for Towns somehow. He choked against Dallas.. He's not a championship guy. Nor will he ever be. He impressed me for a bit.. Then Dallas happened. If we ever hope to reach the finals.. We need a better, more true PF that isn't streaky af
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Post by Nick K on May 31, 2024 11:55:08 GMT -6
What a humiliating loss. Wolves played to not lose instead of playing to win. I turned it off in the 1st it was so bad. Switched back over to watch (I have a potty mouth)ing Kyle Anderson take 2 open 3's to clang them. How difficult is it to run plays to get KAT open? I do suppose if he did get open he would drive into 3 (I have a potty mouth)ing players and either turn the ball over or lose it out of bounds. This loss was on the coaching staff. Just very disappointed. They got their ass handed to them on their own home court. Because we dont "run plays" this is definitely an issue. The players need to know how to do this on their own. It wouldnt have made much difference I dont think last night. No one could hit a shot and KyLuka couldnt miss. We need another playmaker though on the team. If I were to take anything from this series, its that I dont need to see Ant dribble for 75% of the shot clock anymore.No doubt about that.That why Mike Conley is so important. Mike was severely hampered with that bad leg this series and it showed.
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Post by Nick K on May 31, 2024 11:57:58 GMT -6
Its funny with all the talk about us being built to beat Denver, Dallas accidentally built themselves to beat us with their deadline trades. Their bigs are smaller than ours, but they're the type we struggled against all year. Quick, springy with great hands. And with two elite shot creators, we just can't rotate our defense as fast as they move the ball. Talking about hands....Rudy doesn't have any!
I don't remember seeing a big with worse hands than Rudy. Hands of stone.
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Post by kingsxman on May 31, 2024 12:13:12 GMT -6
What leaves me dumbfounded is the coaches and players not being able to counter the double team on ANT, but then again having Rudy on the floor = non-threat for defenses. Comparing it to Luka: - Luka is huge, so he can both stay in control of his dribble and bait the double further away and then make a hard (fast) pass over the top of the double team so the defense has to travel a long distance and it gives the secondary ballhandler time and space to make plays or shoot. Ant usually ends up throwing fadeaway lobs to a teammate so the defense can make their rotation by the time the pass gets to the secondary ballhandler - Dallas has shooters perfectly spaced around the perimeter. Gobert isn't worse of a playmaker than Gafford is, but they make it so simple for him with their spacing. Gafford either dunks it or makes one simple pass to the wing or corner to a shooter. Never more than one dribble, and never more than 1 read, while being completely uncovered. We have non-shooters out there or have not spaced out enough that Gobert always ended up with someone tightly guarding him so he has to make a quick read, and we don't have consistency in spacing. Is Jaden going to stay in the corner or slash? Is Naz going to float a little higher up the floor or stay by the wing? Did they decide to set a screen for each other like Kyle did for KAT? Or is Kyle in the corner and it seems like that's the right read but really will just lead to nothing? - Kyrie is a baller and can create his own shot against doubles himself, and will really cook anyone 1 on 1. Say we do make the timely rotation and get out to cover everyone. Well Kyrie now has a 1 on 1 against a scrambling defense with Gobert pulled out from the rim to double Luka on the PNR. He easily gets into the lane and either makes a crafty layup, or now it really is just pick the shooter that's wide open. We have KAT over there who takes 15-20 minutes to get into the lane if he even does, and is totally out of control at that point. It could be a KAT layup, or just as likely to be a charge or him falling over on a drive. It would very rarely be a stop and find the open shooter situation. Ultimately, it's just a combination of personnel issues (Kyrie is better than KAT, Luka is bigger than Ant) and coaching problems. Luka/Kidd are eager to find a solution and relentlessly attack it, while Finch/Ant is flow-based and no two possessions look the same. That can be a positive for us, as we should have a higher floor with more options for success if teams take away something, but it also limits our ceiling as we don't really have a reliable thing that everyone knows that we can go to. The first point is a great one. KAT does take forever to get to the rack once he decides to drive. But...he's still probably faster than most big men. Its still a skill that we want him to utilize but it comes at a cost and you've outlined the costs pretty well. He got back to constantly picking himself up from off the floor again. Didnt like that. The other point about flow offense. I'd actually swap those outcomes: I think flow has a higher ceiling and a lower floor. If you can teach a team to read and react you have so many more options than with more set plays. But the floor is that it takes forever and consistency in lineups for it to get to be something other than ugly.
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Post by kingsxman on May 31, 2024 12:18:02 GMT -6
Its funny with all the talk about us being built to beat Denver, Dallas accidentally built themselves to beat us with their deadline trades. Their bigs are smaller than ours, but they're the type we struggled against all year. Quick, springy with great hands. And with two elite shot creators, we just can't rotate our defense as fast as they move the ball. Its Timberwolves. Welcome to our probable first round match up next year in the playoffs.
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Post by kingsxman on May 31, 2024 12:24:13 GMT -6
Because we dont "run plays" this is definitely an issue. The players need to know how to do this on their own. It wouldnt have made much difference I dont think last night. No one could hit a shot and KyLuka couldnt miss. We need another playmaker though on the team. If I were to take anything from this series, its that I dont need to see Ant dribble for 75% of the shot clock anymore.No doubt about that.That why Mike Conley is so important. Mike was severely hampered with that bad leg this series and it showed.
this is probably the healthiest Conleys been all his career also. He'll have just turned 37 when the season tips off next year. It aint getting better. I'm not sure Morris is our best backup for him. On paper he is...but I wouldnt say it was a smashing success this year. Ideally I'd like to find someone who can take over the PG duties NEXT year so we could get Mike down to about 25 minutes a game.
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Post by tmill720 on May 31, 2024 12:29:17 GMT -6
Comparing it to Luka: - Luka is huge, so he can both stay in control of his dribble and bait the double further away and then make a hard (fast) pass over the top of the double team so the defense has to travel a long distance and it gives the secondary ballhandler time and space to make plays or shoot. Ant usually ends up throwing fadeaway lobs to a teammate so the defense can make their rotation by the time the pass gets to the secondary ballhandler - Dallas has shooters perfectly spaced around the perimeter. Gobert isn't worse of a playmaker than Gafford is, but they make it so simple for him with their spacing. Gafford either dunks it or makes one simple pass to the wing or corner to a shooter. Never more than one dribble, and never more than 1 read, while being completely uncovered. We have non-shooters out there or have not spaced out enough that Gobert always ended up with someone tightly guarding him so he has to make a quick read, and we don't have consistency in spacing. Is Jaden going to stay in the corner or slash? Is Naz going to float a little higher up the floor or stay by the wing? Did they decide to set a screen for each other like Kyle did for KAT? Or is Kyle in the corner and it seems like that's the right read but really will just lead to nothing? - Kyrie is a baller and can create his own shot against doubles himself, and will really cook anyone 1 on 1. Say we do make the timely rotation and get out to cover everyone. Well Kyrie now has a 1 on 1 against a scrambling defense with Gobert pulled out from the rim to double Luka on the PNR. He easily gets into the lane and either makes a crafty layup, or now it really is just pick the shooter that's wide open. We have KAT over there who takes 15-20 minutes to get into the lane if he even does, and is totally out of control at that point. It could be a KAT layup, or just as likely to be a charge or him falling over on a drive. It would very rarely be a stop and find the open shooter situation. Ultimately, it's just a combination of personnel issues (Kyrie is better than KAT, Luka is bigger than Ant) and coaching problems. Luka/Kidd are eager to find a solution and relentlessly attack it, while Finch/Ant is flow-based and no two possessions look the same. That can be a positive for us, as we should have a higher floor with more options for success if teams take away something, but it also limits our ceiling as we don't really have a reliable thing that everyone knows that we can go to. The first point is a great one. KAT does take forever to get to the rack once he decides to drive. But...he's still probably faster than most big men. Its still a skill that we want him to utilize but it comes at a cost and you've outlined the costs pretty well. He got back to constantly picking himself up from off the floor again. Didnt like that. The other point about flow offense. I'd actually swap those outcomes: I think flow has a higher ceiling and a lower floor. If you can teach a team to read and react you have so many more options than with more set plays. But the floor is that it takes forever and consistency in lineups for it to get to be something other than ugly. Flow has a higher floor because if Luka gets hurt, the Mavs are screwed. They have no idea how to play any other way as everyone has one specific job (and is very good at it). If someone can figure out the Luka pick and roll, their offense goes to crap as they don't really have other options. But they have a super high ceiling as they are so unbelievably good at what they do, and have the perfect pieces to execute it. Flow can withstand Ant's bad shooting games as it can lean more into KAT post ups, Conley pick and roll, Jaden cuts, etc. If a defense throws two at Ant, they should be able to adapt and get decent looks. If teams go small-ball, they can adjust and play big through post ups. If teams go huge, they can pace and space more. It's more adaptable, but it's a lot harder to execute it perfectly since there isn't really anything specific to execute... if that makes sense.
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Post by tmill720 on May 31, 2024 12:33:37 GMT -6
No doubt about that.That why Mike Conley is so important. Mike was severely hampered with that bad leg this series and it showed.
this is probably the healthiest Conleys been all his career also. He'll have just turned 37 when the season tips off next year. It aint getting better. I'm not sure Morris is our best backup for him. On paper he is...but I wouldnt say it was a smashing success this year. Ideally I'd like to find someone who can take over the PG duties NEXT year so we could get Mike down to about 25 minutes a game. I also thought that Conley's lack of size was a low-key problem in the playoffs. We didn't have anywhere to put him against Dallas, as he'd get crushed as a low man or would get blown by in isolation against Kyrie. I would love to have more versatility, with him and Gobert's positions. If Gobert's lack of shooting/spacing is a problem, then we can go Naz/KAT at the 4/5. If Conley's lack of size was an issue, we kind of had to go with one of three options: Kyle which cratered our spacing, NAW which cratered our offense/ball movement, or Ant at the 1 which made him a facilitator. Feels like a big need would be a sturdier or quicker PG that can give us a different look defensively, but still keep our offense going on the other end. I don't think that has to be a "starter" level player, although that combination of skills probably means it would be a starter level salary.
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Post by levine on May 31, 2024 12:52:07 GMT -6
I'm not sure Morris is our best backup for him. On paper he is...but I wouldnt say it was a smashing success this year. The only way I see him back is if he has some kind of crazy loyalty to Connolly - or he gets no decent offers. Dud wasn't even in the Playoff rotation with a banged up Conley. He can't be thrilled about how his season went.
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Post by Bonecrusher on May 31, 2024 14:47:13 GMT -6
Its funny with all the talk about us being built to beat Denver, Dallas accidentally built themselves to beat us with their deadline trades. Their bigs are smaller than ours, but they're the type we struggled against all year. Quick, springy with great hands. And with two elite shot creators, we just can't rotate our defense as fast as they move the ball. Lost to Dallas in game 1 by 3 points. Lost to Dallas in game 2 by 1 point. Lost to Dallas in game 3 by 9 points. Beat Dallas in game 4 by 5 points. Asses kicked by Dallas game 5. Doncic highest scorer for Dallas in every game. Jaden in game 1 Naz in game 2 Ant in game 3 Ant in game 4 KAT in game 5 I won't go into the total dogshit calls the referee's did during game 1 or 2 or the calls they didn't make because they were so busy blowing Doncic, but if Dallas was built to beat us I'm not terribly worried. If we win one of the first 2 games this series I firmly believe will be different. Add in that we just played an incredibly arduous 7 game series with the former NBA champs I'm not to concerned about next year. I'd even bet money that if Dallas and Denver played a 7 game series and we played a 5 game series we would beat that other team. I think Dallas is going to be surprised because they sure do have some smug aholes going on about beating the Wolves and Boston isn't going to be an easy team to beat by any stretch of the imagination.
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Post by Bonecrusher on May 31, 2024 14:55:45 GMT -6
I'm not sure Morris is our best backup for him. On paper he is...but I wouldnt say it was a smashing success this year. The only way I see him back is if he has some kind of crazy loyalty to Connolly - or he gets no decent offers. Dud wasn't even in the Playoff rotation with a banged up Conley. He can't be thrilled about how his season went. Any idea why? I mean he didn't look to terrible during the regular season but we definitely need a solid backup PG. Doubtful JMac is back since he hardly played at all and while Kyle is a solid player he's just no scoring threat so I don't see him back either.
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Post by kingsxman on May 31, 2024 15:00:12 GMT -6
The first point is a great one. KAT does take forever to get to the rack once he decides to drive. But...he's still probably faster than most big men. Its still a skill that we want him to utilize but it comes at a cost and you've outlined the costs pretty well. He got back to constantly picking himself up from off the floor again. Didnt like that. The other point about flow offense. I'd actually swap those outcomes: I think flow has a higher ceiling and a lower floor. If you can teach a team to read and react you have so many more options than with more set plays. But the floor is that it takes forever and consistency in lineups for it to get to be something other than ugly. Flow has a higher floor because if Luka gets hurt, the Mavs are screwed. They have no idea how to play any other way as everyone has one specific job (and is very good at it). If someone can figure out the Luka pick and roll, their offense goes to crap as they don't really have other options. But they have a super high ceiling as they are so unbelievably good at what they do, and have the perfect pieces to execute it. Flow can withstand Ant's bad shooting games as it can lean more into KAT post ups, Conley pick and roll, Jaden cuts, etc. If a defense throws two at Ant, they should be able to adapt and get decent looks. If teams go small-ball, they can adjust and play big through post ups. If teams go huge, they can pace and space more. It's more adaptable, but it's a lot harder to execute it perfectly since there isn't really anything specific to execute... if that makes sense. You're specifically talking about how that style of play fits each of these 2 teams. I was talking about "in general"...for any team.
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Post by jojo on May 31, 2024 15:44:20 GMT -6
Wolves need an offense that takes pressure off of Ant and they never had it all year. Mavs had same problem with Luka until Kyrie arrived and even that didn’t work until this year. Wolves could conceivably do it with KAT and if Jaden develops but it’s so much harder for a big man unless they have an IQ like Joker. I’m not convinced it’ll happen with KAT but they’ll probably run it back mainly cause it won’t be possible to move KAT for value until he has another year off his contract and the new TV deal kicks in. Finch is going to have to push him harder next year.
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Post by Nick K on May 31, 2024 17:49:41 GMT -6
What about our bench? Total failure this series except for the one Reid game. Hmmm. I dont think so. We're in this position becuase for 3 games Towns and Ant didnt show up. THis series is a total team failure from top to bottom. Where was the ball movement on offense? Where was the defense? I dont know why at 5 minutes we havent pulled our starters. They dont deserve to be on the floor. Kingsz, totally agree on the underlined. Still, look at the bench numbers and they are horrific. Overall they didn't show up against Dallas.
The blame can go all around. Coaches too. We were out coached totally and completely. Our players didn't know how to deal with it. Plus, Luka and Kyrie killed us. Kat and Ant couldn't match them.
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Post by Nick K on May 31, 2024 17:52:33 GMT -6
The only way I see him back is if he has some kind of crazy loyalty to Connolly - or he gets no decent offers. Dud wasn't even in the Playoff rotation with a banged up Conley. He can't be thrilled about how his season went. Any idea why? I mean he didn't look to terrible during the regular season but we definitely need a solid backup PG. Doubtful JMac is back since he hardly played at all and while Kyle is a solid player he's just no scoring threat so I don't see him back either. Morris was a huge disappointment since day 1 I'm sorry to say since I wanted him here. He was a shell of his former self.
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