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Post by tmill720 on Nov 29, 2023 14:31:40 GMT -6
Golden State Propaganda has started. Remember how GS's assets are framed, and like how "Clips" needed to get Harden now (versus Philly was the one in the major bind). If Moody and Kuminga were on the Wolves, or Bulls, would they be covered as "notable assets?" Should the Golden State Warriors look to make a major upgrade to compete for a title this season, the team has notable assets to try and do so. Chris Paul is on the books for $30.8 million this season, and his salary for next season is non-guaranteed. Forward Jonathan Kuminga and guard Moses Moody also remain coveted around the league. – via Michael Scotto @ HoopsHypeDid you actually hear that from someone specific? Or did you conjure that up? All the national media I follow was talking about how toxic the Harden/Sixers relationship was and how the Clips didn't need to rush it, since they were the only bidder.
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Post by darko on Nov 29, 2023 14:49:57 GMT -6
Did you actually hear that from someone specific? Or did you conjure that up? All the national media I follow was talking about how toxic the Harden/Sixers relationship was and how the Clips didn't need to rush it, since they were the only bidder. For sure how Vecna and Bobby framed it, and I guarantee the other Morey Media were the same.
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Post by tmill720 on Nov 29, 2023 15:12:16 GMT -6
Did you actually hear that from someone specific? Or did you conjure that up? All the national media I follow was talking about how toxic the Harden/Sixers relationship was and how the Clips didn't need to rush it, since they were the only bidder. For sure how Vecna and Bobby framed it, and I guarantee the other Morey Media were the same. You have an amazing ability to conjure up enemies to fit your viewpoint. Kind of like how Kobe and Jordan were the GOATs at creating bulletin board material out of perceived slights. You are truly the GOAT on this message board. @sam_Vecenie - Aug 12 - Dove into why this was always likely on a podcast recently. The market for Harden just kind of doesn’t exist in a way that actually satisfies the Sixers’ need to stay in the title race with Embiid in his prime. Quote @wojespn - Aug 12 - ESPN Sources: The 76ers have ended trade talks on guard James Harden and plan to bring him back to training camp for start of the season. The Sixers had periodic offseason conversations with the Clippers — Harden’s desired destination — but no traction on a deal materialized. @sam_Vecenie - Sep 28 - Also, agree with @johnhollinger's take today that if you're the Clippers, why do you want Harden instead of Jrue? You can theoretically just cut out the middle man and get Jrue, whose contract is extendable unlike Harden's. And similarly to Harden, you'd be bringing him home. @sam_Vecenie - Oct 25 - The leverage dynamics on the Harden/Sixers/Clippers thing are among the most interesting in NBA trade talks I can remember in a while, if only because it seems like the Clippers are the only ones bidding and the Sixers have Morey, who will let this rock til he gets what he wants @sam_Vecenie - Oct 31 - Legitimately, my final conclusion on the Harden deal for both the 76ers and the Clippers was “well, this makes sense given all of the pieces at play! Good for the Sixers and long-term planning. Good for the Clippers to go all-in and get further offensive firepower.
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Post by darko on Nov 29, 2023 15:25:41 GMT -6
If covered correctly the leverage dynamics were Sixers have less than zero, and there's no reason for Clips to do this deal before the trade deadline. The exact opposite of how they covered Simmons on behalf of Daryl, or Lakers Westbrook last year.
These things matter, because without, there's no reason for Clips to have done at the start this early in the season, and I would argue, period.
How the Sixers/Harden gets covered, to Bulls "assets" versus Warriors matters, and plays a huge role in "leverage" and what deals get done. It's as real as injuries to a team, totally bailed out that Philly team, and that does not happen without.
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Post by tmill720 on Nov 29, 2023 16:02:51 GMT -6
If covered correctly the leverage dynamics were Sixers have less than zero, and there's no reason for Clips to do this deal before the trade deadline. The exact opposite of how they covered Simmons on behalf of Daryl, or Lakers Westbrook last year. These things matter, because without, there's no reason for Clips to have done at the start this early in the season, and I would argue, period. How the Sixers/Harden gets covered, to Bulls "assets" versus Warriors matters, and plays a huge role in "leverage" and what deals get done. It's as real as injuries to a team, totally bailed out that Philly team, and that does not happen without. Could be they wanted to get it done early so they could see what they have, give them time to integrate, give Harden time to get back into shape (or prevent him from getting more out of shape). There are other reasons than "big NBA media" NO ONE was pushing the Clippers to get it done. They all said they should wait until the price drops since they are the only bidders. I know you want everything to prove your conspiracy, but I don't think this one fits
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jr
Junior Member
Posts: 287
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Post by jr on Nov 29, 2023 16:58:31 GMT -6
If covered correctly the leverage dynamics were Sixers have less than zero, and there's no reason for Clips to do this deal before the trade deadline. The exact opposite of how they covered Simmons on behalf of Daryl, or Lakers Westbrook last year. These things matter, because without, there's no reason for Clips to have done at the start this early in the season, and I would argue, period. How the Sixers/Harden gets covered, to Bulls "assets" versus Warriors matters, and plays a huge role in "leverage" and what deals get done. It's as real as injuries to a team, totally bailed out that Philly team, and that does not happen without. I just don't see how anyone could see Philly getting more media/NBA love than LA. Sure, if we were on the either side of the Harden fiasco, we'd be crucified like we were with Rudy or more. I just don't see why the Clips would want Harden, let alone pay his price. It makes no sense to me. Can anyone make a case that Harden is good for LA?
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Post by darko on Nov 29, 2023 17:16:18 GMT -6
I don't know, seems like Wolves fans that grew up listening to these guys choose to be confused still, I'd refer you to Presti, Kahn, Hinkie, Prosas, Presti thread, never not relevant.
Clips need a half hour minimum to integrate spread pick in roll in 2023. Plenty of time post deadline to shoot for if Leonard and George even stay healthy, of course that doesn't mean it's going to be good, not like getting them all together even five years ago.
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Post by darko on Nov 29, 2023 17:18:00 GMT -6
I just don't see how anyone could see Philly getting more media/NBA love than LA. Sure, if we were on the either side of the Harden fiasco, we'd be crucified like we were with Rudy or more. I just don't see why the Clips would want Harden, let alone pay his price. It makes no sense to me. Can anyone make a case that Harden is good for LA? Many of the NBA intellectual dark web were making that case, IMO very much in bad faith which is why Ballmer moved now. I still can't believe they made it happen. See also how they downplay LaVine in attempt to land him in GS or Philly for scraps.
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Post by darko on Nov 29, 2023 17:25:49 GMT -6
Marks is maybe the sneakiest, but you can see it when the Nets were in a bind, and he'd be like they can wait because KD loves playing basketball lol, versus his take on Clips now, in favor of Daryl.
Morey himself dubbed it the Shameless Boston media, which is not really wrong, outside of it's really the Daryl/Warriors Pod bro's. A LOT of crossover. It's not like they were Rockets fans, most of them had season passes to Sloan, and presumably Jeff Scwhartz's wife.
I guess my larger point is, it should not be the role of the media to leverage these things on behalf of their friends, or players they like, so heavily favor in all nba voting, which is the difference of millions of dollars for players, on the whim of their friendships.
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Post by tmill720 on Nov 30, 2023 9:18:50 GMT -6
I just don't see how anyone could see Philly getting more media/NBA love than LA. Sure, if we were on the either side of the Harden fiasco, we'd be crucified like we were with Rudy or more. I just don't see why the Clips would want Harden, let alone pay his price. It makes no sense to me. Can anyone make a case that Harden is good for LA? Many of the NBA intellectual dark web were making that case, IMO very much in bad faith which is why Ballmer moved now. I still can't believe they made it happen. See also how they downplay LaVine in attempt to land him in GS or Philly for scraps. Do you mean "many people" in the sense that Trump usually means "many people"? I.e. the many voices in my head are all making that case? I seriously did not see one person demanding the Clips to make the trade ASAP.
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Post by darko on Nov 30, 2023 12:37:29 GMT -6
Do you mean "many people" in the sense that Trump usually means "many people"? More like framing. You know who I mean, but I mentioned two in this case. I'll give you a Wolves related example. In 2012-13, if you frame it as Love was not offered a five year designated extension is because they were saving it for Rubio (how HTB presented it, and Wolves fans understand it today) you might say, well I think I'd pay Love versus Double R (also wrong), but what we were weighing it against was Love versus someone who we believed was. That was maybe our only carrot, to attract, and keep one of those guys here. So anyone in 09, 10, 11 draft classes, like PG for example, that's who we're saving it for, or whatever player you think is worth that. It was intentionally misrepresented by a handful of heads that spent three years trying to tank that team. The Rudy stuff was a fraction of the bs we took during the first process. There has been nothing like that before or since and the result was it costing one gm their job. I get people don't like finding out they were punked, but Wolves fans, and most recently Ballmer were punked by the NBA Narrative Wars. I would say the KD trade ask, Dame ask, compared to how Harden, and Simmons requests were handled more directly applies here though. Or in regards to Bulls vs Warriors watch how they run down Bulls assets, and fluff up Philly and GS. It's real dude. If you want to pretend it's not true because you bought it a decade ago, that's fine, but it is a choice. Maybe I'll start a thread real or not real. Or like how HTB tried to frame second apron as a problem for the middle, oppose to his beloved C's, Warriors and Clips. It's a game, but it has huge impact on outcomes in many cases, and what teams have leverage in the market to make or get out of deals.
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Post by tmill720 on Nov 30, 2023 12:43:44 GMT -6
Do you mean "many people" in the sense that Trump usually means "many people"? More like framing. You know who I mean, but I mentioned two in this case.You specifically mentioned Vecenie, and I went back and looked at all his tweets that mentioned some combination of Harden, Clippers, and Sixers. NONE OF THEM PUT PRESSURE ON THE CLIPPERS TO GET THE DEAL DONE.
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Post by darko on Nov 30, 2023 12:51:08 GMT -6
You specifically mentioned Vecenie, and I went back and looked at all his tweets that mentioned some combination of Harden, Clippers, and Sixers. NONE OF THEM PUT PRESSURE ON THE CLIPPERS TO GET THE DEAL DONE. Oh you mean Vecna. That's ZL brother. Lowe and Marks would be two among the group in this case.
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Post by darko on Nov 30, 2023 12:53:44 GMT -6
Unrelated I saw video for the first time of Dunc'd On, and those guys need to switch heads.
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Post by darko on Nov 30, 2023 12:57:27 GMT -6
I need to have one of those big flip boards with all the heads and their proper names connected by red yarn so people can follow easier.
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Post by tmill720 on Nov 30, 2023 14:49:38 GMT -6
I need to have one of those big flip boards with all the heads and their proper names connected by red yarn so people can follow easier. You need to have some real, concrete examples of people saying these things rather than just saying "people" were talking about "things" and it was obviously a conspiracy
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Post by darko on Nov 30, 2023 15:07:46 GMT -6
You need to have some real, concrete examples of people saying these things rather than just saying "people" were talking about "things" and it was obviously a conspiracy I won't be transcribing anything, but you can hear in real time. PKHPP is really more of what I would consider a conspiracy, where they're actively working together to tank someone. If you didn't know the game, one could look at it as subjective takes, but let's say for example GS had LaVine, and Bulls had Kuminga and Moody, the script would be flipped for sure. Bulls GS Philly "asset" narrative, and how it's talked about, framed is what I would have you pay attention to today if you're interested. Just a red baby world out there.
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Post by tmill720 on Nov 30, 2023 15:16:58 GMT -6
You need to have some real, concrete examples of people saying these things rather than just saying "people" were talking about "things" and it was obviously a conspiracy I won't be transcribing anything, but you can hear in real time. PKHPP is really more of what I would consider a conspiracy, where they're actively working together to tank someone. If you didn't know the game, one could look at it as subjective takes, but let's say for example GS had LaVine, and Bulls had Kuminga and Moody, the script would be flipped for sure. Bulls GS Philly "asset" narrative, and how it's talked about, framed is what I would have you pay attention to today if you're interested. Just a red baby world out there. IMO they only talk about "assets" with teams that are ones that would likely consider making a move for someone. Obviously OKC and Boston has significantly more assets than GS to make a move for Lavine, but they don't need to/want to! So they moreso focus on teams that could/should make a move. It's standard business to have a "report" come out on so many people wanting your players to try to drive narrative, and that's not just some big NBA/bias thing. I'm sure there will be a report in a month or two about teams "banging down the door" for Bojan from the Pistons. It's really just GMs leaking to the media what they want them to say to frame their own narrative. That is truly part of the job as being a GM. Being a GM/coach isn't just putting the best team on the court, it's also about managing personalities, managing the media, etc., which I think you're just mad that Kahn did not excel at that. That is part of being a GM, unfortunately for him.
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Post by darko on Nov 30, 2023 15:54:26 GMT -6
It's standard business to have a "report" come out on so many people wanting your players to try to drive narrative, and that's not just some big NBA/bias thing. To a degree, but this was the change in 09' - 10'. I would say fans have a better idea of what it is now, especially following that Shams/Woj piece, and whoever did that piece on Woj's practices when the KD stuff was going down. It's really just GMs leaking to the media what they want them to say to frame their own narrative. That is truly part of the job as being a GM. This is true, but this isn't protecting sources out of a journalistic practice, this is actively working PR for teams, and in a competitive market, when they're only doing it for their teams, that is tampering. There really should be no reason for any of this to not come from agents, or named front office employees, because again, it impacts teams leverage in the market place. You could say it doesn't always work, but zero question they are attempting to leverage other teams, Clips/Harden could not be more clear in how that was covered. It is crazy for Clips to do that deal now (and I would argue period), and would not have happened if covered subjectively. Even Sam who I don't follow, but him saying the leverage is fascinating isn't true, he is tweeting that to make it seem like both teams had equal leverage, and Sixers had none. They are trying to manipulate the market, and more often then not, have. That's Morey's true legacy, weaponizing all these media heads, far more then applying "Money Ball" to NBA, to find out Shane Battier was good. It absolutely impacted his ability to get off Harden in a timely matter, let alone get something in return more than expiring money.
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jr
Junior Member
Posts: 287
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Post by jr on Nov 30, 2023 19:45:33 GMT -6
Do you mean "many people" in the sense that Trump usually means "many people"? More like framing. You know who I mean, but I mentioned two in this case. I'll give you a Wolves related example. In 2012-13, if you frame it as Love was not offered a five year designated extension is because they were saving it for Rubio (how HTB presented it, and Wolves fans understand it today) you might say, well I think I'd pay Love versus Double R (also wrong), but what we were weighing it against was Love versus someone who we believed was. That was maybe our only carrot, to attract, and keep one of those guys here. So anyone in 09, 10, 11 draft classes, like PG for example, that's who we're saving it for, or whatever player you think is worth that. It was intentionally misrepresented by a handful of heads that spent three years trying to tank that team. The Rudy stuff was a fraction of the bs we took during the first process. There has been nothing like that before or since and the result was it costing one gm their job. I get people don't like finding out they were punked, but Wolves fans, and most recently Ballmer were punked by the NBA Narrative Wars.I would say the KD trade ask, Dame ask, compared to how Harden, and Simmons requests were handled more directly applies here though. Or in regards to Bulls vs Warriors watch how they run down Bulls assets, and fluff up Philly and GS. It's real dude. If you want to pretend it's not true because you bought it a decade ago, that's fine, but it is a choice. Maybe I'll start a thread real or not real. Or like how HTB tried to frame second apron as a problem for the middle, oppose to his beloved C's, Warriors and Clips. It's a game, but it has huge impact on outcomes in many cases, and what teams have leverage in the market to make or get out of deals. I don't buy it. You're trying to convince us that billion $ organizations are making decisions based upon what some talking heads are spewing from their mom's basement. Am I missing your argument?
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Post by darko on Nov 30, 2023 20:29:59 GMT -6
I don't buy it. You're trying to convince us that billion $ organizations are making decisions based upon what some talking heads are spewing from their mom's basement. Am I missing your argument? If Bobby Marks and Zach Lowe do pods from their mom's basement then yes. Although I think Zach's mom passed away somewhat recently, so maybe someone's garage. They know how valuable it is, as do their "sources," which is why they have them do it. It's also a proven formula for success, just leak on behalf of some gm if you want to become a household name, and troll.
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Post by darko on Dec 1, 2023 8:18:13 GMT -6
(Washington Post on Maverick Carter betting on games). To me the league has opened itself up to some of this. Maybe it’s still the same odds a player or ref would get caught now that it’s legal, but with so much money behind it now, seems like we’re eventually going to have player, or ref involved.
*****
Maverick Carter, the longtime manager and business partner of Los Angeles Lakers superstar LeBron James, admitted to betting on NBA games through an illegal bookie, according to federal law enforcement records reviewed by The Washington Post. 16 hours ago – via Gus Garcia-Roberts @ Washington Post
Carter made the admission during a November 2021 interview with federal agents investigating bookie Wayne Nix, who has since pleaded guilty to charges stemming from his role running a sprawling offshore sports-betting ring. Carter told agents he “could not remember placing any bets on the Lakers,” according to an investigative report summarizing the interview. 16 hours ago – via Gus Garcia-Roberts @ Washington Post
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Post by kingsxman on Dec 1, 2023 8:30:28 GMT -6
As sports in general gets more and more involved in sports betting....you're going to see more and more of this crap. I dont like how Football and Basketball have embraced sports betting. But its our nationwide "I want it now damn the long term consequences" attitude that is at the root of all this.
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Post by Bonecrusher on Dec 1, 2023 10:21:35 GMT -6
As sports in general gets more and more involved in sports betting....you're going to see more and more of this crap. I dont like how Football and Basketball have embraced sports betting. But its our nationwide "I want it now damn the long term consequences" attitude that is at the root of all this. It's a short-term fix to help the teams pay for the exorbitant pay the players are getting.
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Post by darko on Dec 1, 2023 10:55:42 GMT -6
If I'm Chi town, moving DeRozan, and HODL on rest of the team makes sense. Maybe try to get a young defensive minded wing, or point, some second rounders, whatever. Then I would go get Becky Hammon or Jordi Fernandez. I think offense makes more sense centering around Zach, and Vucecic surrounded by more complimentary pieces, so maybe you have Ayo, LaVine, Caruso, Williams, Vucevic. There bench is probably still lacking, but at least that first group is more balanced.
When it comes to possible destinations, the Heat and Knicks are known to be preferable to DeMar DeRozan if he winds up getting moved. – via Sam Amick @ The Athletic
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