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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 10:59:21 GMT -6
I want it now damn the long term consequences" attitude that is at the root of all this. The culture of capitalism, and infinite growth. Anyone can come up with additional revenue streams long term, that's not hard, but it is different than making a long term, durable, great product. Dollars wise that's probably true, but it's a huge risk if fans believe the game is rigged like that Kings vs Lakers WCF. NFL I'm sure still gets ratings on Thursday night games, but I don't know if I've ever watched one outside of Thanksgiving, and my understanding is they've mostly been a joke matchup wise. A betting scandal will for sure happen, to me it's the league saying it is worth it happening every now and then because they're making so much off of it, but especially true when we're talking about point differential which is easy to manipulate enough as a player or ref.
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Post by kingsxman on Dec 1, 2023 11:51:49 GMT -6
I want it now damn the long term consequences" attitude that is at the root of all this. The culture of capitalism, and infinite growth. Anyone can come up with additional revenue streams long term, that's not hard, but it is different than making a long term, durable, great product. Dollars wise that's probably true, but it's a huge risk if fans believe the game is rigged like that Kings vs Lakers WCF. NFL I'm sure still gets ratings on Thursday night games, but I don't know if I've ever watched one outside of Thanksgiving, and my understanding is they've mostly been a joke matchup wise. A betting scandal will for sure happen, to me it's the league saying it is worth it happening every now and then because they're making so much off of it, but especially true when we're talking about point differential which is easy to manipulate enough as a player or ref. Bingo. Its not capitalism that the issue so much as its the desire for "infinite growth". (I like that term). Its unrealistic but exactly fits into the current culture we have in this country of zero patience for everything because we can get anything we want on our phone in seconds. We expect everything in life to be that way. Even investments.
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Post by tmill720 on Dec 1, 2023 15:12:55 GMT -6
It's standard business to have a "report" come out on so many people wanting your players to try to drive narrative, and that's not just some big NBA/bias thing. To a degree, but this was the change in 09' - 10'. I would say fans have a better idea of what it is now, especially following that Shams/Woj piece, and whoever did that piece on Woj's practices when the KD stuff was going down. It's really just GMs leaking to the media what they want them to say to frame their own narrative. That is truly part of the job as being a GM. This is true, but this isn't protecting sources out of a journalistic practice, this is actively working PR for teams, and in a competitive market, when they're only doing it for their teams, that is tampering. There really should be no reason for any of this to not come from agents, or named front office employees, because again, it impacts teams leverage in the market place. You could say it doesn't always work, but zero question they are attempting to leverage other teams, Clips/Harden could not be more clear in how that was covered. It is crazy for Clips to do that deal now (and I would argue period), and would not have happened if covered subjectively. Even Sam who I don't follow, but him saying the leverage is fascinating isn't true, he is tweeting that to make it seem like both teams had equal leverage, and Sixers had none. They are trying to manipulate the market, and more often then not, have. That's Morey's true legacy, weaponizing all these media heads, far more then applying "Money Ball" to NBA, to find out Shane Battier was good. It absolutely impacted his ability to get off Harden in a timely matter, let alone get something in return more than expiring money. So I'm confused by all this. Are the talking heads spewing/trolling what insider information the GMs are telling them? Or are the talking heads controlling the narrative and forcing the GMs to make decisions? Seems super contradictory.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 16:02:56 GMT -6
Are the talking heads spewing/trolling what insider information the GMs are telling them? Or are the talking heads controlling the narrative and forcing the GMs to make decisions? Seems super contradictory. This leads me to believe you understand, and then made a comment pretending to not understand. When real journalism reports from sources they have to corroborate that information. That is way different than what these NBA guys have been doing for a decade, and it is not coincidence. When you report one gm, or agent's spin, that's what you are doing. At minimum you should be citing the team or agent you spoke to. There is no reason for anonymity here, and it's not a story. It is far better for fans and the league to have that come from direct sources. You can see them working Chicago over now, meanwhile they might suggest things like Warriors have assets in Kuminga, and Wiggins? Would Toronto give up Siakam or OG for that? By constantly hammering Chicago, they are crippling their market, and it has a massive impact on what that team is able to leverage. Just like if Philly was correctly covered as completely (I have a potty mouth)ed, Clips would not have offered picks. Bill has said that's what he was doing early in BS (mostly because another ESPN guy called him out on it), but he always treated it as tongue and cheek, but again if it weren't valuable he wouldn't be doing it. Even if they had an opinion, that's not what this is. It is daily, repetitive narrative pushing to get their buds help, and the league needs to crack down on. It is intentionally putting a loud repetitive thumb on the scale, on behalf of their friends. No one would know who Woj was if he didn't work for Jeff Schwartz and act like he was reporting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 16:13:33 GMT -6
The constant drumbeat of "gm's wouldn't give up much for Zach" is intentional, so reporters carrying that water have the responsibility to understand that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 16:28:29 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 16:29:27 GMT -6
When did the media decide this was their role?
As they try to get Zach to GS or Philly for peanuts.
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Post by tmill720 on Dec 1, 2023 19:43:36 GMT -6
The constant drumbeat of "gm's wouldn't give up much for Zach" is intentional, so reporters carrying that water have the responsibility to understand that. It’s more likely the “there’s not a market for Zach” is coming from a team that wants him. And it also means that the Bulls GM is bad at leverage if he isn’t using the media to help him. He should be equally pushing a narrative that everyone wants the Bulls guys! NBA media doesn’t care what team gets what as long as there is drama and something to talk about. If they had an agenda, why is there such a narrative about OKC having good management? Wouldn’t they want Shai on the Warriors? Why aren’t they reporting on Lamelo wanting to go to the Knicks or something? It’s just so ridiculous to think it’s a conspiracy and not just know that they’re just reporting what GMs/agents are telling them, even if it is one-sided.
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Post by levine on Dec 1, 2023 21:20:48 GMT -6
Maybe the “no market for LaVine” is because he’s an empty stat player that thinks he’s a star, but does little to help a team win - and is owed a massive amount of money still?
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jr
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Post by jr on Dec 2, 2023 9:04:12 GMT -6
Maybe the “no market for LaVine” is because he’s an empty stat player that thinks he’s a star, but does little to help a team win - and is owed a massive amount of money still? This could be a topic for a new thread: What differentiates an empty stats star from a winning star ? We kind of know it when we see it, but what is it exactly?...
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Post by kingsxman on Dec 2, 2023 10:24:52 GMT -6
The constant drumbeat of "gm's wouldn't give up much for Zach" is intentional, so reporters carrying that water have the responsibility to understand that. It’s more likely the “there’s not a market for Zach” is coming from a team that wants him. And it also means that the Bulls GM is bad at leverage if he isn’t using the media to help him. He should be equally pushing a narrative that everyone wants the Bulls guys! NBA media doesn’t care what team gets what as long as there is drama and something to talk about. If they had an agenda, why is there such a narrative about OKC having good management? Wouldn’t they want Shai on the Warriors? Why aren’t they reporting on Lamelo wanting to go to the Knicks or something? It’s just so ridiculous to think it’s a conspiracy and not just know that they’re just reporting what GMs/agents are telling them, even if it is one-sided. While I dont think that the "conspiracy" is as vast as Darko makes it out to be, i do believe that some of the talking heads of the world DO carry water for some agents and potentially teams. Wasnt it just reported that Shams and Woj have some "quid pro quo" with some agents where they reported things that helped the agents players in exchange for info on the overall league? Not as far fetched as we may think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2023 10:54:14 GMT -6
While I dont think that the "conspiracy" is as vast as Darko makes it out to be, i do believe that some of the talking heads of the world DO carry water for some agents and potentially teams. Wasnt it just reported that Shams and Woj have some "quid pro quo" with some agents where they reported things that helped the agents players in exchange for info on the overall league? Not as far fetched as we may think. It's a known known, and yes there was a good piece that broke down Shams, Woj's practice. Reporting the Bulls need to get Caruso, DeRozan, LaVine to GS, and Philly for nothing in November is not organic. League needs to crack down on and could very easily if they said, reporters if you put this in the mill you need to tell use which team and agent it's coming from. It also goes to if the league is more talented than ever, why must they work so hard to load teams up for playoffs? It's their job is to just start blowing up teams that aren't contending, which IMO is another big reason to cut to 66 games. This idea that Warriors, Philly, Lakers are entitled to the idea there's always trades they could make is manufactured. A shorter season would mean those sloppy starts would hurt teams, and they can't just reset the deck halfway through (when other teams often lean into tanking) and make playoffs. You can't tell me every team is more talented than ever, but Chicago has to break it up because they're not contending. Moving DeRozan makes some sense if they're not resigning him, but no reason they couldn't get hot and scare some teams in the play-in. Donovan does nothing for me there, and maybe Zach does want out, but we're so far ahead of the deadline to be doing this it's ludicrous. This is one of the bummers of the built to lose era, this all or known narrative, that these guys have created. There used to be some fun of being a spoiler team, and in theory you still wanted to play well for yourself, and career. We got to get out of this chip or nothing mindset if we want teams to compete night in night out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 10:29:27 GMT -6
Athletic Interview with Harden where he brings up the Morey wink wink deal. Silver are you watching? Please also interview Danny Green, and Pat Beverly, because they also know Harden was promised a bag.
But timing-wise, when did Daryl tell you that you’d be getting the max? James Harden: Well, the time that’s important was before the playoffs started (last season). He had conversations with my representation. – Sam Amick: When reached about Harden’s claim, a Sixers team source denied this was the case. – via Sam Amick @ The Athletic
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 10:31:52 GMT -6
Big Ticket does not think Warriors are a playoff team.
“This team is not a playoff team,” Garnett said of the Warriors. Pierce then questioned that take, to which Garnett responded that the Warriors aren’t a playoff team “at all.” He continued. “No, not at all,” Garnett added when asked if the Warriors are even a play-in team. “… I’m just watching teams get better than them.” – via Peter Dewey @ ahnfiredigital.com
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 0:00:27 GMT -6
The self proclaimed greatest point guard of all-time has 65 assists and 60 turnovers in 16 games. Turns out not that great on ball!
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Post by levine on Dec 5, 2023 0:22:47 GMT -6
The self proclaimed greatest point guard of all-time has 65 assists and 60 turnovers in 16 games. Turns out not that great on ball! 84 and 64. Interesting that you cut off your totals before the last 2 games where he had 19 assists and 4 turnovers...
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Post by kingsxman on Dec 5, 2023 7:37:33 GMT -6
The self proclaimed greatest point guard of all-time has 65 assists and 60 turnovers in 16 games. Turns out not that great on ball! 84 and 64. Interesting that you cut off your totals before the last 2 games where he had 19 assists and 4 turnovers... I'm just trying to figure out who the self proclaimed greatest point guard of all time is. Guess I wasnt aware someone had made that claim.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 8:33:25 GMT -6
Steph Curry said it’s him and Magic.
And info must not have been most recent , but makes sense now that Dray’s back.
Point is when he’s on ball it’s never been good, even in an era where it’s impossible for point guards to turn the ball over.
I don’t think assists are what they used to be anymore, but still those are amazing numbers through their first 16 games when they were 8-10.
Underrated part of their start, that and d.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 9:35:40 GMT -6
Is there a way for anyone to clear up those spam posts or best if left for admin? I don't want to click on, and infest the whole board, but if I can delete them I will.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Dec 6, 2023 10:46:11 GMT -6
The in season tourney has been a lot of fun. I really hope it's Indy vs. NOP in the finals.
A couple of tweaks I heard that sound good.
Winner of the tourney (or maybe each team in the final) get a half a win in the standings. Basically, it's a tiebreaker vs. everyone. Things like draft position and guaranteed seeding/homecourt are too much IMO, but having a tiebreaker vs anyone seems like a nice carrot without going to far.
Instead of point differential, do quarters won. It would take away the stigma of "running up the score" in these games while still being a differentiator. Now maybe people like the points thing in that it adds some energy in those last games, but the quarters thing seems like a way to bridge the gap?
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Post by levine on Dec 6, 2023 11:04:29 GMT -6
Is there a way for anyone to clear up those spam posts or best if left for admin? I don't want to click on, and infest the whole board, but if I can delete them I will. I try to delete them and block the poster as I see them.
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Post by jojo on Dec 6, 2023 14:24:28 GMT -6
The in season tourney has been a lot of fun. I really hope it's Indy vs. NOP in the finals. A couple of tweaks I heard that sound good. Winner of the tourney (or maybe each team in the final) get a half a win in the standings. Basically, it's a tiebreaker vs. everyone. Things like draft position and guaranteed seeding/homecourt are too much IMO, but having a tiebreaker vs anyone seems like a nice carrot without going to far. Instead of point differential, do quarters won. It would take away the stigma of "running up the score" in these games while still being a differentiator. Now maybe people like the points thing in that it adds some energy in those last games, but the quarters thing seems like a way to bridge the gap? I would use there actual W-L record as the tiebreaker. And if that’s tied go to point differential in tournament.
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Post by wunderwolf on Dec 6, 2023 14:58:33 GMT -6
Is there a way for anyone to clear up those spam posts or best if left for admin? I don't want to click on, and infest the whole board, but if I can delete them I will. Are you talking about your prolific posts about "process" and also posts about how the NBA and reffing changes ruined the game? Just kidding... Love you Darko
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2023 0:10:54 GMT -6
Important work!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2023 0:17:46 GMT -6
Unrelated Portland lost 106 - 110 to the NBA Illegal Screens tonight.
Blazers shot 16 free throws total, Golden State 33, and the self proclaimed greatest point guard of all time who made a documentary about himself while he's still in the league had 11 free throws. Cool stuff.
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