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Post by wunderwolf on Jan 4, 2024 9:54:45 GMT -6
Pels were really impressive last night on both sides of the court. They just flat out kicked the Wolves butts.
Hope Wolves can get back to their winning ways.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 10:03:03 GMT -6
Yeah, just an old fashioned walloping. They were the better team across the board.
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 4, 2024 10:52:05 GMT -6
Ant had 10 FTAs last night. Last 8 games: 10, 10, 11, 18, 13, 5, 8, 8. One difference is who is Ant gettting those fouls on? I'm guessing its various people on the other teams who try to stop him. What other teams do to us that hurts so much and affects the game so much is they target Rudy and KAT (and McD) and get fouls early....which forces us to sit them...which really affects our D. I'm guessing that most of Ants foul calls come late in the game. which also is important....but doesnt have the same effect.
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 4, 2024 10:52:41 GMT -6
Pels were really impressive last night on both sides of the court. They just flat out kicked the Wolves butts. Hope Wolves can get back to their winning ways. Right now I dont think the Wolves could beat the Pistons. And I'm not being sarcastic. They are in a rough way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 10:54:19 GMT -6
One difference is who is Ant gettting those fouls on? And when. If it's called early, it's makes it much harder to keep out the paint the rest of the way.
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Post by cory on Jan 4, 2024 11:23:31 GMT -6
I think we're at the point where we the FO needs to have an honest conversation on Kyle essentially being our backup PG and will he be here next year? Those minutes are not going well at this point and the spacing of the team is off right now. Guys are just clustered around the ball and it's leading to far too many turnovers.
I was hopeful we could just rely on buyouts to fill some role spots for us but I'm becoming more convinced that if we want to be a serious threat, they need to make a move for Tyus. It probably requires Kyle, Shake, and hopefully 2nd rounders but we need a true PG that can direct, shoot, and lead for 48 minutes, not just the Conley minutes. We still would need a shooter but I think a legit PG is the biggest need.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 11:53:22 GMT -6
I've concluded O pre and post fom is two ball movers. I think we need Kyle AND Tyus to hum if the old butterball is going to continue to stand pat on O.
For example, if we have Tyus and Naz, sure they can pick and roll some, but we would still need that 4th ball handler (true handle), which I don't think is NAW, Shake, Reid, Towns or Troy Brown Jr.
It will be fun to see what Connelly decides, I'm sure there's many options outside of he handful names were talking about, but I think the goal should be two creators on the floor, I think it's tough with J-Mac, and Kyle in that second group, assuming we're refusing to change up O there.
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Post by quinn on Jan 4, 2024 11:58:37 GMT -6
I think we're at the point where we the FO needs to have an honest conversation on Kyle essentially being our backup PG and will he be here next year? Those minutes are not going well at this point and the spacing of the team is off right now. Guys are just clustered around the ball and it's leading to far too many turnovers. I was hopeful we could just rely on buyouts to fill some role spots for us but I'm becoming more convinced that if we want to be a serious threat, they need to make a move for Tyus. It probably requires Kyle, Shake, and hopefully 2nd rounders but we need a true PG that can direct, shoot, and lead for 48 minutes, not just the Conley minutes. We still would need a shooter but I think a legit PG is the biggest need. Honestly, if we're thinking what would balance out the roster the most: KAT to the Nets and swapping Kyle for Tyus It's unlikely at this juncture, but if the offense continues to sputter, will the FO think differently about repurposing some of the big money? To me, a fantastic way to utilize the money going to KAT and Kyle would be to see if there's a scenario where we could get a 3 team deal with KAT and Kyle going to the Nets, Cam Johnson and DFS headlining the return back to us, and maybe a protected first going to Washington in exchange for Tyus coming to the Wolves. The roster I think would be much more balanced at that point and I think we could really have some people making less money who can specialize in what we're hoping KAT and Kyle can be doing. Cam Johnson is solid defensively and is very switchable as a 4 next to Jaden and Rudy and would be a great floor spacer on offense. DFS could fill in the Kyle minutes at the backup 4 and be another solid 3 and D role player, and Tyus, as we've talked about before, would be the true organizer of that group and we could rely on him to at least stick a 3, unlike Kyle. Might not be a popular idea, but it seems like a way we could add more floor spacing and organization while repurposing some of the big money to create a better roster fit.
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Post by levine on Jan 4, 2024 12:01:43 GMT -6
I think we're at the point where we the FO needs to have an honest conversation on Kyle essentially being our backup PG and will he be here next year? Those minutes are not going well at this point and the spacing of the team is off right now. Guys are just clustered around the ball and it's leading to far too many turnovers. I was hopeful we could just rely on buyouts to fill some role spots for us but I'm becoming more convinced that if we want to be a serious threat, they need to make a move for Tyus. It probably requires Kyle, Shake, and hopefully 2nd rounders but we need a true PG that can direct, shoot, and lead for 48 minutes, not just the Conley minutes. We still would need a shooter but I think a legit PG is the biggest need. Honestly, if we're thinking what would balance out the roster the most: KAT to the Nets and swapping Kyle for Tyus It's unlikely at this juncture, but if the offense continues to sputter, will the FO think differently about repurposing some of the big money? To me, a fantastic way to utilize the money going to KAT and Kyle would be to see if there's a scenario where we could get a 3 team deal with KAT and Kyle going to the Nets, Cam Johnson and DFS headlining the return back to us, and maybe a protected first going to Washington in exchange for Tyus coming to the Wolves. The roster I think would be much more balanced at that point and I think we could really have some people making less money who can specialize in what we're hoping KAT and Kyle can be doing. Cam Johnson is solid defensively and is very switchable as a 4 next to Jaden and Rudy and would be a great floor spacer on offense. DFS could fill in the Kyle minutes at the backup 4 and be another solid 3 and D role player, and Tyus, as we've talked about before, would be the true organizer of that group and we could rely on him to at least stick a 3, unlike Kyle. Might not be a popular idea, but it seems like a way we could add more floor spacing and organization while repurposing some of the big money to create a better roster fit. I like it overall. My biggest concern is both Cam and DFS are terrible rebounders (both are 6/36).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 12:27:25 GMT -6
I always thought Brooklyn was the better option than Knicks.
So then Cam would start, and the second unit would look more like Tyus, NAW, Reid? Are we playing defense in that second group? Naz is back-up center?
Does it make a difference what we do in the second group, if Finch is still coach? If generating O is our biggest problem, than the solution would be a offense that can generate O, isn't the trick just in a floor with J-Mac, and Kyle, Naz, NAW, and Kat are the spacers? If we're trying to OKC with that second group. Also hard to do if one or more guys aren't drawing a double. Maybe these are areas Kat to the corner could work, though I still don't know why you'd put him there over Naz, other than Naz is better at getting to the middle and paassing quickly if not always effectively.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 12:43:23 GMT -6
Is there a correlation to playing bad d, the better the O? Don't Pacers stink?
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 4, 2024 13:19:20 GMT -6
I think we're at the point where we the FO needs to have an honest conversation on Kyle essentially being our backup PG and will he be here next year? Those minutes are not going well at this point and the spacing of the team is off right now. Guys are just clustered around the ball and it's leading to far too many turnovers. I was hopeful we could just rely on buyouts to fill some role spots for us but I'm becoming more convinced that if we want to be a serious threat, they need to make a move for Tyus. It probably requires Kyle, Shake, and hopefully 2nd rounders but we need a true PG that can direct, shoot, and lead for 48 minutes, not just the Conley minutes. We still would need a shooter but I think a legit PG is the biggest need. Honestly, if we're thinking what would balance out the roster the most: KAT to the Nets and swapping Kyle for Tyus It's unlikely at this juncture, but if the offense continues to sputter, will the FO think differently about repurposing some of the big money? To me, a fantastic way to utilize the money going to KAT and Kyle would be to see if there's a scenario where we could get a 3 team deal with KAT and Kyle going to the Nets, Cam Johnson and DFS headlining the return back to us, and maybe a protected first going to Washington in exchange for Tyus coming to the Wolves. The roster I think would be much more balanced at that point and I think we could really have some people making less money who can specialize in what we're hoping KAT and Kyle can be doing. Cam Johnson is solid defensively and is very switchable as a 4 next to Jaden and Rudy and would be a great floor spacer on offense. DFS could fill in the Kyle minutes at the backup 4 and be another solid 3 and D role player, and Tyus, as we've talked about before, would be the true organizer of that group and we could rely on him to at least stick a 3, unlike Kyle. Might not be a popular idea, but it seems like a way we could add more floor spacing and organization while repurposing some of the big money to create a better roster fit. A guard and small forward for Towns? Not sure I like that. Need a 4 out of any deal. You mention Cam can be a 4. Real GM lists him as 6-8 210 lbs. I dont think any of these guys move the needle as much as just keeping Towns.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 4, 2024 13:22:31 GMT -6
Or are we just collectively “basketball stupid”? Take out Conley, Kyle, and JMac and who on the team would you say is has high BBIQ or intangibles? Unfortunately, I think that we collectively are "basketball stupid" and I'm worried about where it goes as all 3 of the guys who score higher on that list aren't likely to be here for the long haul. We're financially locked in on 3 guys right now who aren't great decision makers in KAT, Ant, and Jaden. Ant and Jaden are young, but like we've seen with KAT, BBIQ isn't exactly something you can bank on improving with experience.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 13:28:41 GMT -6
If you sub players with CF this is spot on.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 4, 2024 13:36:23 GMT -6
I think we're at the point where we the FO needs to have an honest conversation on Kyle essentially being our backup PG and will he be here next year? Those minutes are not going well at this point and the spacing of the team is off right now. Guys are just clustered around the ball and it's leading to far too many turnovers. I was hopeful we could just rely on buyouts to fill some role spots for us but I'm becoming more convinced that if we want to be a serious threat, they need to make a move for Tyus. It probably requires Kyle, Shake, and hopefully 2nd rounders but we need a true PG that can direct, shoot, and lead for 48 minutes, not just the Conley minutes. We still would need a shooter but I think a legit PG is the biggest need. Yep. JMac's recent minutes have shown how useful that can be. The problem there is that JMac went 0-4 from deep last night and that's not uncommon. We need a better JMac. I've really wanted to hold on to Kyle because I think his D could be so helpful in the playoffs, but the offense is just so bad with him out there. He can't shoot and now teams are just walling off Rudy when Kyle is out there so those lobs are another part of Kyle's effectiveness off the board. Dane and Britt have talked about this, but at the beginning of the year, it was a legit discussion to who you'd keep between Conley and Kyle. That's over now. Kyle is gone after this year. I was initially more on the side of trading lesser stuff to get Monte Morris over Tyus, but I'm thinking now that targeting Tyus would be better. Trade Kyle, Shake and 2nds or Minott for Tyus as you suggested. Tyus would give us 48 mpg of really heady PG play and maybe there's a path to bring them both back going forward with Conley slowly ceding time to Tyus. We've talked about the myth of guys taking less, but maybe that could actually work with Jones being from MN with a path to starting in 1-2 years? I don't expect either to take a significant discount, but you also have to consider who else could offer them money? Orlando? Philly? Who has cap space that can offer more than the MLE along with playing time on a good team? Could we resign both?
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Post by quinn on Jan 4, 2024 13:36:26 GMT -6
Or are we just collectively “basketball stupid”? Take out Conley, Kyle, and JMac and who on the team would you say is has high BBIQ or intangibles? Unfortunately, I think that we collectively are "basketball stupid" and I'm worried about where it goes as all 3 of the guys who score higher on that list aren't likely to be here for the long haul. We're financially locked in on 3 guys right now who aren't great decision makers in KAT, Ant, and Jaden. Ant and Jaden are young, but like we've seen with KAT, BBIQ isn't exactly something you can bank on improving with experience. In order of BBIQ, I'd say the top 5 goes: Conley Rudy JMac Kyle Naz They are the ones who consistently know where to be on offense and defense and can make an impact when they don't have the ball. It's a shame that 3 of our 4 highest-paid players are not on this list and would more than likely be at the lowest end of the BBIQ spectrum. Unfortunately, I think it's something that could hold this team back from accomplishing what we believe they could based on their pure talent.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 4, 2024 13:41:35 GMT -6
Take out Conley, Kyle, and JMac and who on the team would you say is has high BBIQ or intangibles? Unfortunately, I think that we collectively are "basketball stupid" and I'm worried about where it goes as all 3 of the guys who score higher on that list aren't likely to be here for the long haul. We're financially locked in on 3 guys right now who aren't great decision makers in KAT, Ant, and Jaden. Ant and Jaden are young, but like we've seen with KAT, BBIQ isn't exactly something you can bank on improving with experience. In order of BBIQ, I'd say the top 5 goes: Conley Rudy JMac Kyle Naz They are the ones who consistently know where to be on offense and defense and can make an impact when they don't have the ball. It's a shame that 3 of our 4 highest-paid players are not on this list and would more than likely be at the lowest end of the BBIQ spectrum. Unfortunately, I think it's something that could hold this team back from accomplishing what we believe they could based on their pure talent. Rudy on D, absolutely. Offensively? I don't think so. How many times would a high IQ player embarrass himself dribbling upcourt and losing the ball before they'd stop thinking that's an effective play? How many times would they keep calling for passes on post ups when they end in TOs half the time by fumbling it out of bounds. Naz is a quick decision maker, but a good portion of them are bad decisions. He thinks his handle is way better than it is. It's relatively very good, but he seems to think it's elite and it's created numerous TOs these past few weeks. His defensive decision making is really poor as well. Recently he's been going way to far out on the perimeter to press up on guys who easily blow right by him. He gets so many fouls by poor positioning on D. I absolutely love Naz, but he's gotten a little high on his own supply IMO and needs get a little more fundamental at this point.
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 4, 2024 13:56:14 GMT -6
Or are we just collectively “basketball stupid”? Take out Conley, Kyle, and JMac and who on the team would you say is has high BBIQ or intangibles? Unfortunately, I think that we collectively are "basketball stupid" and I'm worried about where it goes as all 3 of the guys who score higher on that list aren't likely to be here for the long haul. We're financially locked in on 3 guys right now who aren't great decision makers in KAT, Ant, and Jaden. Ant and Jaden are young, but like we've seen with KAT, BBIQ isn't exactly something you can bank on improving with experience. I said this same thing on Canis and got roasted.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 14:08:00 GMT -6
The dumb player stuff is what cracks me up when Finch is like "Conley is an extension of me" as if he has something to do with what's happening when Mike decides to cue something. Finch has the power, and while I know he doubles as our supply closet manager, I think assisting our O, especially with units minus Ant, is equally important as staying stocked on highlighters.
Has anyone asked him what he's trying to do when teams muck that up?
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Post by quinn on Jan 4, 2024 14:09:02 GMT -6
In order of BBIQ, I'd say the top 5 goes: Conley Rudy JMac Kyle Naz They are the ones who consistently know where to be on offense and defense and can make an impact when they don't have the ball. It's a shame that 3 of our 4 highest-paid players are not on this list and would more than likely be at the lowest end of the BBIQ spectrum. Unfortunately, I think it's something that could hold this team back from accomplishing what we believe they could based on their pure talent. Rudy on D, absolutely. Offensively? I don't think so. How many times would a high IQ player embarrass himself dribbling upcourt and losing the ball before they'd stop thinking that's an effective play? How many times would they keep calling for passes on post ups when they end in TOs half the time by fumbling it out of bounds. Naz is a quick decision maker, but a good portion of them are bad decisions. He thinks his handle is way better than it is. It's relatively very good, but he seems to think it's elite and it's created numerous TOs these past few weeks. His defensive decision making is really poor as well. Recently he's been going way to far out on the perimeter to press up on guys who easily blow right by him. He gets so many fouls by poor positioning on D. I absolutely love Naz, but he's gotten a little high on his own supply IMO and needs get a little more fundamental at this point. I think I disagree on Rudy offensively. I actually think the fumbling, bumbling dribbling up the court is Rudy feeling empowered enough to try that. Feeling empowered is not a bad thing by any means, but he's tried it maaaaaybe one or two too many times. I've noticed he's stopped doing it recently as his monster stretch has cooled off a bit. I think his screen setting, especially off-ball is completely underrated and he's one of the only guys who sets intentional screens I believe. Much of the bad things we see with Rudy are probably a byproduct of having intense pride about his game and confidence (probably overconfidence) in his abilities. I don't chalk that up to bad BBIQ per se, but rather a fantastic player who knows he's good.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 4, 2024 14:29:55 GMT -6
I think I disagree on Rudy offensively. I actually think the fumbling, bumbling dribbling up the court is Rudy feeling empowered enough to try that. Feeling empowered is not a bad thing by any means, but he's tried it maaaaaybe one or two too many times. I've noticed he's stopped doing it recently as his monster stretch has cooled off a bit. I think his screen setting, especially off-ball is completely underrated and he's one of the only guys who sets intentional screens I believe. Much of the bad things we see with Rudy are probably a byproduct of having intense pride about his game and confidence (probably overconfidence) in his abilities. I don't chalk that up to bad BBIQ per se, but rather a fantastic player who knows he's good. But is he good offensively? The overconfidence is what I think is poor BBIQ. He still is frequently calling for the ball in situations that if he got it would almost assuredly end in a TO. That's poor recognition of what is an effective play. It would be like Kyle Anderson calling for the ball at the 3 pt line. Yes, Rudy sets good screens, but that's a given for him. Without that, he'd be unplayable offensively and even with those screens, Rudy takes a lot of stuff off the table offensively. He kills spacing and really can't punish teams for going small because he such a weak option offensively even vs. smaller players.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 4, 2024 14:32:34 GMT -6
Take out Conley, Kyle, and JMac and who on the team would you say is has high BBIQ or intangibles? Unfortunately, I think that we collectively are "basketball stupid" and I'm worried about where it goes as all 3 of the guys who score higher on that list aren't likely to be here for the long haul. We're financially locked in on 3 guys right now who aren't great decision makers in KAT, Ant, and Jaden. Ant and Jaden are young, but like we've seen with KAT, BBIQ isn't exactly something you can bank on improving with experience. I said this same thing on Canis and got roasted. Maybe because people think Ant and Jaden get a pass for being young? I'd say they can surely get better, but I'm worried about banking on that. I don't think being young is a great excuse. OKC is the youngest team in the league and they play really smart basketball. Even if Ant and Jaden get better, right now we still aren't a high IQ team overall. What was the argument that we're actually higher in BBIQ?
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Post by quinn on Jan 4, 2024 14:36:58 GMT -6
I think I disagree on Rudy offensively. I actually think the fumbling, bumbling dribbling up the court is Rudy feeling empowered enough to try that. Feeling empowered is not a bad thing by any means, but he's tried it maaaaaybe one or two too many times. I've noticed he's stopped doing it recently as his monster stretch has cooled off a bit. I think his screen setting, especially off-ball is completely underrated and he's one of the only guys who sets intentional screens I believe. Much of the bad things we see with Rudy are probably a byproduct of having intense pride about his game and confidence (probably overconfidence) in his abilities. I don't chalk that up to bad BBIQ per se, but rather a fantastic player who knows he's good. But is he good offensively? The overconfidence is what I think is poor BBIQ. He still is frequently calling for the ball in situations that if he got it would almost assuredly end in a TO. That's poor recognition of what is an effective play. It would be like Kyle Anderson calling for the ball at the 3 pt line. Yes, Rudy sets good screens, but that's a given for him. Without that, he'd be unplayable offensively and even with those screens, Rudy takes a lot of stuff off the table offensively. He kills spacing and really can't punish teams for going small because he such a weak option offensively even vs. smaller players. Well that's the age-old question with Rudy. Is he actually good on offense. I am of the mind that he is a good offensive player because of all of those little things he does. I'm willing to take the overconfidence in his abilities because he is so good at the other things he does. He may not be a traditionally "good" offensive player like KAT and Ant are, but I would argue Rudy is just as effective as those guys when it comes to having an effective offense. To me, not being traditionally good at offense and yet being as effective classifies high IQ. You have to be able to turn what you're deficient at into a strength. Or at least something the defense can't exploit.
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Post by quinn on Jan 4, 2024 14:38:55 GMT -6
I said this same thing on Canis and got roasted. Maybe because people think Ant and Jaden get a pass for being young? I'd say they can surely get better, but I'm worried about banking on that. I don't think being young is a great excuse. OKC is the youngest team in the league and they play really smart basketball. Even if Ant and Jaden get better, right now we still aren't a high IQ team overall. What was the argument that we're actually higher in BBIQ? Having a coach that they fully buy into helps as well. They would not be the same team if they had Finch instead of Daigneault. He's really bringing the best out of that team and it seems like all the players like playing for him. Is there any other team in the NBA set up for sustained success better than OKC?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 15:17:09 GMT -6
Some great poise once again shown by this board. I for one have full confidence that swim instructor over on the sideline can play some 2K, find some plays that work with this personnel, and bingo bango, prepare to soar again.
"Michael Phelps, is like an extension of me in the pool, but not that nerd Lochte!"
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