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Post by Bonecrusher on Oct 31, 2018 20:46:07 GMT -6
Boxscore.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 31, 2018 20:50:04 GMT -6
Obviously this is a career night for D Rose, but he definitely can take over a game offensively at this point. I realize the problem is how much he plays and how much leeway he's given when he's having a bad night, but that's 100% on Thibs for continuing to play him on those nights, it doesn't have anything to do with D Rose He is an absolute steal on his $2 million contract, if utilized properlyThat's right. Therein lies the problem. Rose is now going to think he can do this every night. The shots that fell tonight won't tomorrow. His selfish play comes at the expense of his teammates. OK, it worked tonight, but these big games happen rarely. He will now shoot us out of many games down the road trying to recreate his glory game. I've said it before, the guy has value but you have to muzzle him. You have to control his aggressiveness so that it works for the team. I just don't see Thibs doing that.
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Post by OmegaWolfFan on Oct 31, 2018 21:02:00 GMT -6
Hell of a game by Rose. Even I got emotional towards the end. I will bite my tongue on the criticism tonight.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 31, 2018 21:23:24 GMT -6
just in.....
Houston just called offering four first round picks for Rose. P-)
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Post by WolvesLife on Oct 31, 2018 21:26:54 GMT -6
Mad respect. Everyone told em he was done, hang it up, yall never comin back. I get what the numbers have said about Rose this year so far, but for one night.. Let's just respect how much this guy had to go through to make this night happen.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 31, 2018 22:07:49 GMT -6
Mad respect. Everyone told em he was done, hang it up, yall never comin back. I get what the numbers have said about Rose this year so far, but for one night.. Let's just respect how much this guy had to go through to make this night happen. No question about that. I don't think anybody here, even his critics are anything but really happy for this guy. I am.
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Post by kingsxman on Oct 31, 2018 22:11:43 GMT -6
I'm as hard on Rose as anyone (well...maybe not anyone) but I have to say that I felt good for him tonight. Being at the game it was very cool to see the emotion on his face when he hit 48 points. Coming out of a time out you could see he'd been crying while on the bench. I felt good for him because I think he felt his career was over and for one night...he was the old Derrick Rose. Yes, he shoots too much and hogs the ball...but I'll give him props tonight because we dont win that game without him tonight.
The arena was maybe 1/2 full at most but 90 % of them stayed afterwards and watched his interview on FSN and cheered for him. You could tell his teammates were very happy for him...which says alot.
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Post by boognish on Oct 31, 2018 23:04:35 GMT -6
Wow, what a game and performance by Rose. I'm officially part of his fan club after that performance. Who needs Butler around here anyway?
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 1, 2018 2:41:07 GMT -6
I'll give him credit for a great game and that he lit up Rubio and Exum.
I don't think Rose's presence as a regular in the lineup is net positive over the long run. I'm still skeptical. But still, a helluva night. Our franchise has a history of seeing guys go off (Mo Williams, Corey Brewer, Randy Breuer way back in 1990) with one off mega nights.
That said, I'll enjoy it.
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Post by cory on Nov 1, 2018 5:52:11 GMT -6
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Post by BIG BAD WOLF on Nov 1, 2018 6:30:08 GMT -6
WOW! A guy who used to be an MVP has the game of his life, gets you a win in a most improbable way, and you STILL don't want him on the team? What else could he have done last night? Save a kitten from a tree in his way home? Come on man! That is one of the problems with this franchise and the MN fans generally: their ideal player is a local guy, completely dominating, MVP level athlete , articulated, boy scout, happily married, choir boy, philanthropist, role model, generous with his time and money, grateful he plays for the best team and the greatest fans in the world. Anything short of that is not acceptable and we will quickly move on to the next prospect who might come closer to ideal. Teams like BOS or SAS would make it sound like they just uncovered a gem in a sewer if they got a performance like that from a player like Rose. BOS would quickly get the MVP discussion started and shortly after would turn him into unprotected future picks, while SAS would ride him until he's 48 or trade him for a young prospect. MIN cannot even get Butler, an arguably top 10 player in the league, hyped up enough to receive $0.50/$1.00 offers...
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Post by cory on Nov 1, 2018 6:36:51 GMT -6
WOW! A guy who used to be an MVP has the game of his life, gets you a win in a most improbable way, and you STILL don't want him on the team? What else could he have done last night? Save a kitten from a tree in his way home? Come on man! That is one of the problems with this franchise and the MN fans generally: their ideal player is a local guy, completely dominating, MVP level athlete , articulated, boy scout, happily married, choir boy, philanthropist, role model, generous with his time and money, grateful he plays for the best team and the greatest fans in the world. Anything short of that is not acceptable and we will quickly move on to the next prospect who might come closer to ideal. Teams like BOS or SAS would make it sound like they just uncovered a gem in a sewer if they got a performance like that from a player like Rose. BOS would quickly get the MVP discussion started and shortly after would turn him into unprotected future picks, while SAS would ride him until he's 48 or trade him for a young prospect. MIN cannot even get Butler, an arguably top 10 player in the league, hyped up enough to receive $0.50/$1.00 offers... Not wanting a rapist on the team I have been a fan of for 25 years is something I stand by. And he's never shown any remorse for his actions. He's just a jersey. You do you though. And what you put about what Minnesota fans want is completely wrong. KG was the most beloved basketball player in franchise history and swore a blue streak up Target Center every night. Adrian Peterson was cheered after he beat his kid. Minnesota fans in general are as forgiving of professional athletes as any fan base. You're making it up to fit your argument. There could be just as many, if not more fans in the state who would forgive any professional athlete who performs well and chooses to play here. We don't know but there's a track record of not really caring about what someone has done. And I hate iso ball.
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 1, 2018 6:52:16 GMT -6
If Rose were not a Thibs "guy" and had his super years in Philadelphia or another market, under a different regime, there probably wouldn't be a lot of angst and hand wringing over the performance. Regardless of whether or not he raped someone (or sexually assaulted or was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, whatever the reality was).
The Thibs brand is so toxic right now with a lot of Wolves fans...and I think that's where Rose's performance gets blinded.
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Post by Bonecrusher on Nov 1, 2018 7:42:35 GMT -6
So they mentioned his personal life but I never knew he was charged with rape. But he was also found not-guilty by a jury of his peers whether we like it or not.
With that said I've already mentioned this is an aberration. He's 30 and a cheap backup no question but he's getting starter minutes and I am going to bet that Thibs went to Tyus and told him he was going to start Rose and Tyus had his "soreness" or whatever reason he gave for not playing.
In the end Thibs is just toxic for this team. I am hoping Rose stays on as a backup to Jones provided he stays and Teague goes because Rose seems like a really good teammate and isn't going to douche out like Butler.
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Post by tjstyles on Nov 1, 2018 8:00:17 GMT -6
Here is the problem I have with Rose. This is his best game. He took 31 shots to get 50 points. That's pretty darn good, don't get me wrong. But, our franchise player took 17 shots, cause that is the most Rose decided Towns "deserved". Almost half the shots. And, with those 17 shots, Towns scored 28 points, which was higher Points Per Shot than Rose's best game. His monster comeback game. Towns shot as many FTs as he did 2PT attempts. They could not defend him inside without fouling. A good PG gets the ball to his big in this situation. Foul Gobert or Favors out of the game. Get the ball to the franchise player who is actually more efficient than you in your best game. I'll give Rose this one, cause it is impressive what he was able to do. But, the problem isn't that Rose can't get a few games like this a season. It is that this is the Rose we see every game. When Rose shoots 21%, he still takes 19 shots per 36. He still averages 6 assists per game. The hate isn't even really about Rose. It's about an offensive scheme that does not feature the teams' best offensive player in any way. And it's about deliberately getting players who play a style that does not lend themselves to getting our best offensive player involved. The only PG that can and does pass Towns the ball at a proper rate is Tyus, and Flip drafted Tyus and Thibs is driving him off the team. It's not about bashing Rose. It's about the fact that while Rose is on the team, Karl-Anthony Towns is an afterthought for the Wolves offense. When Towns gets his first game of the season with 20 FGAs, I will be OK with Rose getting 31 in a game. Or, let me put it this way. If James Harden was averaging 14 shots a game and Eric Gordon was averaging 15.9 shots per game, do you think people would be quiet? And if not, do you think other people would be saying, "what's with all the Eric Gordon hate?" There would be people burning cars in front of Toyota Center. Right now, Derrick Rose is averaging more shots per game than Chris Paul. Derrick Rose averages more shots per game than any player on the Nuggets. He is 32nd in the league with shots per game (for players with 40+ total minutes this season). It's not this game. If Rose had the ability to defer when his shot wasn't falling or when there was a better play with one of the other people on his team, then it would not be an issue. The problem is that he will keep feeding himself at the expense of the team and his teammates. When his shot is falling, he can get 50 points. When his shot is not falling, he just keeps giving the other team the ball. And now there's the "remember the 50 point game? Cut him some slack for bricking 8 shots in a row when Towns has dominant position on a smaller player in the paint." We have seen this with Darko, Beasley, Johnson, Flynn, Williams, and many other players on the Wolves. 12 crappy games followed by a good game and a number of people proclaim, "See?!?! I was right, you just got to give them some room to grow!" Thibs will point to this game and trade Tyus for a second round pick and never look back. Granted, that will be good for my fantasy team cause I have Tyus for $1, but it's going to kill the Wolves. I applaud Rose for his great game last night, but it came at a cost. Besides the ammo it gave Thibs going forward, it also told our already disenfranchised franchise player that things probably won't get any better for him after Butler is finally traded.
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Post by BIG BAD WOLF on Nov 1, 2018 8:12:44 GMT -6
WOW! A guy who used to be an MVP has the game of his life, gets you a win in a most improbable way, and you STILL don't want him on the team? What else could he have done last night? Save a kitten from a tree in his way home? Come on man! That is one of the problems with this franchise and the MN fans generally: their ideal player is a local guy, completely dominating, MVP level athlete , articulated, boy scout, happily married, choir boy, philanthropist, role model, generous with his time and money, grateful he plays for the best team and the greatest fans in the world. Anything short of that is not acceptable and we will quickly move on to the next prospect who might come closer to ideal. Teams like BOS or SAS would make it sound like they just uncovered a gem in a sewer if they got a performance like that from a player like Rose. BOS would quickly get the MVP discussion started and shortly after would turn him into unprotected future picks, while SAS would ride him until he's 48 or trade him for a young prospect. MIN cannot even get Butler, an arguably top 10 player in the league, hyped up enough to receive $0.50/$1.00 offers... Not wanting a rapist on the team I have been a fan of for 25 years is something I stand by. And he's never shown any remorse for his actions. He's just a jersey. You do you though. And what you put about what Minnesota fans want is completely wrong. KG was the most beloved basketball player in franchise history and swore a blue streak up Target Center every night. Adrian Peterson was cheered after he beat his kid. Minnesota fans in general are as forgiving of professional athletes as any fan base. You're making it up to fit your argument. There could be just as many, if not more fans in the state who would forgive any professional athlete who performs well and chooses to play here. We don't know but there's a track record of not really caring about what someone has done. And I hate iso ball. I do not know any of the "rapist" details, but i know for a fact he cannot be a convicted one and walk around free. And if he is not proven guilty and convicted for such crime, you have no right to refer to him by that term... . And BTW, how is that relevant to being good at basketball? I admire the guy for his ability to put the ball in the hoop. I don't know if i would want him dating my daughter... All these guys are (and should be) admired for their athletic abilities. They are in no way qualified to be role models for our kids. Iso ball has its moments: Kobe, Kyrie, LeBron managed to make it look good at times. When successful, it is the triumph of individual skill, talent, work, and physical abilities over team work. It is the one against many, leading by example narrative that makes it attractive to some people. Definitely not everybody's cup of tea...
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Post by cory on Nov 1, 2018 8:30:08 GMT -6
Not wanting a rapist on the team I have been a fan of for 25 years is something I stand by. And he's never shown any remorse for his actions. He's just a jersey. You do you though. And what you put about what Minnesota fans want is completely wrong. KG was the most beloved basketball player in franchise history and swore a blue streak up Target Center every night. Adrian Peterson was cheered after he beat his kid. Minnesota fans in general are as forgiving of professional athletes as any fan base. You're making it up to fit your argument. There could be just as many, if not more fans in the state who would forgive any professional athlete who performs well and chooses to play here. We don't know but there's a track record of not really caring about what someone has done. And I hate iso ball. I do not know any of the "rapist" details, but i know for a fact he cannot be a convicted one and walk around free. And if he is not proven guilty and convicted for such crime, you have no right to refer to him by that term... . And BTW, how is that relevant to being good at basketball? I admire the guy for his ability to put the ball in the hoop. I don't know if i would want him dating my daughter... All these guys are (and should be) admired for their athletic abilities. They are in no way qualified to be role models for our kids. Iso ball has its moments: Kobe, Kyrie, LeBron managed to make it look good at times. When successful, it is the triumph of individual skill, talent, work, and physical abilities over team work. It is the one against many, leading by example narrative that makes it attractive to some people. Definitely not everybody's cup of tea... If you don't know any of the details, I don't think you should have any opinion on the matter in any respect. I've read the details, I followed the case, and I disagree with the jury that acquitted him and I'm not the only one. Given that there was actual evidence of Rose corroborating in lining up a gang bang disguised as just a hookup at the least and his defense in the case to denigrate a person that he, in my opinion, took complete advantage of, he's not someone I will ever cheer for. There's also significant evidence that this was a rape but it wasn't enough to convict because like most cases in this area, it turns into a he said vs. she said case. By your standard, we shouldn't call OJ Simpson a murderer since he was acquitted. You can draw whatever line in the sand you want on cheering for athletes based on their performance and disregarding anything that isn't a part of the game, I'm not asking you to switch to my side and if you want to cheer him, go for it. But for me, it's never going to be a possibility. Everyone has different lines of morality and I really have no idea why you would question what mine are and why I don't like the guy on the court. There's plenty of evidence that he's just not a good dude. Good for him on scoring 50, but it doesn't win me over or make me a fan and I will continue to be hard on him when he puts up a -20 on the court in 24 minutes of action. Taken directly from the testimony of Derrick Rose, and the victim who he was texting with, had an estimated BAC level of .20 - Q: So they just said, ‘Hey, it’s the middle of the night. Let’s go over to plaintiff’s house’ and they never gave you a reason why they wanted to go over there?’
Rose: No, but we men. You can assume.
Q: I’m sorry?
Rose: I said we men. You can assume. Like we leaving to go over to someone’s house at 1 a.m., there’s nothing to talk about.
…
Q: All right. Is there — within what you just reviewed in those text messages — is there anything within them that would lead you to believe that plaintiff wanted to have sex with you and the other two defendants on Aug. 26, 2013?
Rose: No.
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Post by levine on Nov 1, 2018 9:00:15 GMT -6
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Post by Nick K on Nov 1, 2018 9:02:23 GMT -6
Rose has a lot of supporters in the NBA in this espn piece....
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Post by cory on Nov 1, 2018 9:09:13 GMT -6
I know I'm being a buzzkill about a good victory but it's just not as easy as supporting the team in this case. I felt dirty the first time I clapped after AP beat his kid and I stopped doing it and got rid of the one piece of Vikings gear I had that had his image on it. I have the same feeling in having D Rose on this team and having to watch him. I just can't support him knowing what I know after reading about it.
If you can separate, good for you, and I sincerely don't view that as being a bad thing. I just can't do it personally and I would prefer he not be on this team. His style of play and Thibs blinders towards him certainly don't help but D Rose started in a hole he was never going to get out of in my eyes.
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Post by cory on Nov 1, 2018 9:44:32 GMT -6
Rose has a lot of supporters in the NBA in this espn piece....
I don't fault anyone for cheering for him and for NBA players who know the grind and have had injuries themselves, I can see this being a great story among them. It is a pretty great redemption story on the court but so many other factors make it a paradox for fans.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 1, 2018 9:52:18 GMT -6
Rose has a lot of supporters in the NBA in this espn piece....
I don't fault anyone for cheering for him and for NBA players who know the grind and have had injuries themselves, I can see this being a great story among them. It is a pretty great redemption story on the court but so many other factors make it a paradox for fans. I'm not faulting you in any way. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion. It's clearly one side of the many sided story.
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Post by BIG BAD WOLF on Nov 1, 2018 10:26:26 GMT -6
If this whole hype leads to something good, I'm all for it. Rose's salary is too small to make a difference in a trade, but if instead of sending a pick out as a sweetener you can replace the pick with his contract, what's not to like? It was rumored Heat did not have the picks for a three way with MIN and SAC. What if MIN can convince a team to take Rose and send a pick to SAC to help complete the Butler trade? I don't see Thibs sending out both his golden boys in one swing, but if you take him out of equation, it might happen like that.
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Post by tjstyles on Nov 1, 2018 10:30:39 GMT -6
If this whole hype leads to something good, I'm all for it. Rose's salary is too small to make a difference in a trade, but if instead of sending a pick out as a sweetener you can replace the pick with his contract, what's not to like? It was rumored Heat did not have the picks for a three way with MIN and SAC. What if MIN can convince a team to take Rose and send a pick to SAC to help complete the Butler trade? I don't see Thibs sending out both his golden boys in one swing, but if you take him out of equation, it might happen like that. I will say that if Thibs manages to trade Rose for a FRP he deserves to stay on as GM. 8)
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Post by kingsxman on Nov 1, 2018 11:14:39 GMT -6
Not wanting a rapist on the team I have been a fan of for 25 years is something I stand by. And he's never shown any remorse for his actions. He's just a jersey. You do you though. And what you put about what Minnesota fans want is completely wrong. KG was the most beloved basketball player in franchise history and swore a blue streak up Target Center every night. Adrian Peterson was cheered after he beat his kid. Minnesota fans in general are as forgiving of professional athletes as any fan base. You're making it up to fit your argument. There could be just as many, if not more fans in the state who would forgive any professional athlete who performs well and chooses to play here. We don't know but there's a track record of not really caring about what someone has done. And I hate iso ball. I do not know any of the "rapist" details, but i know for a fact he cannot be a convicted one and walk around free. And if he is not proven guilty and convicted for such crime, you have no right to refer to him by that term... . And BTW, how is that relevant to being good at basketball? I admire the guy for his ability to put the ball in the hoop. I don't know if i would want him dating my daughter...
All these guys are (and should be) admired for their athletic abilities. They are in no way qualified to be role models for our kids.
Iso ball has its moments: Kobe, Kyrie, LeBron managed to make it look good at times. When successful, it is the triumph of individual skill, talent, work, and physical abilities over team work. It is the one against many, leading by example narrative that makes it attractive to some people. Definitely not everybody's cup of tea... The highlighted is my issue. Your right. They are in no way qualified to be role models for our kids.....yet they are. My kids are huge sports fans and I'm lucky that they support players who I would qualify as "good" role models. THe issue is that every time that we sweep under the rug the allegations of misdeeds because a player is good at "basketball/football/etc"....we say that the law doesnt apply to you if your good at a skill we value. Look, I'm happy for Derrick Rose that he had a good night on the basketball court...but that doesnt mean that I want him on my team. For one night I'll say "good win...good job" but today I'm already at "I'd prefer he wasnt on our team". Both for what TJ correctly points out about his usage and for the off court issues...
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