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Post by quinn on Jan 26, 2023 12:34:17 GMT -6
Yes! Bigger teams need to be more physical and Wolves have not been. They were quick speed team last year. You don’t transform into that style overnight and it will require some roster changes. Actually KAT might help this if he can play smarter and fit into schemes. That's why I'm not 100% sold on DLo being traded for Conley/Lowry types. I want to lean more heavily into point Ant/point Kyle Anderson and have one of those two guys bully PGs in the post. If we're going to play this way, let's send 5 to the defensive glass and give up 0 offensive rebounds in a game, even if it means 0 fast break points. Let's lean into this physical dog fight style that our roster can be shaped towards. That's why I was advocating for a Jae Crowder trade! We need more DAWGS Then I think we have to push for Terance Mann from the Clippers. I don't think they'd part with him easily, but if we put together a DLo + Naz package centered around Mann coming back tp us, he would fit that bill of a physical point-wing ish player. I don't truly know how good Ant can be as a playmaker, but if he developed into a Harden-esque lead guard, we would really be able to lean into a Dire wolves style lineup that kingsxman has talked about. |
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Post by levine on Jan 26, 2023 12:38:35 GMT -6
That's why I'm not 100% sold on DLo being traded for Conley/Lowry types. I want to lean more heavily into point Ant/point Kyle Anderson and have one of those two guys bully PGs in the post. If we're going to play this way, let's send 5 to the defensive glass and give up 0 offensive rebounds in a game, even if it means 0 fast break points. Let's lean into this physical dog fight style that our roster can be shaped towards. That's why I was advocating for a Jae Crowder trade! We need more DAWGS Then I think we have to push for Terance Mann from the Clippers. I don't think they'd part with him easily, but if we put together a DLo + Naz package centered around Mann coming back tp us, he would fit that bill of a physical point-wing ish player. I don't truly know how good Ant can be as a playmaker, but if he developed into a Harden-esque lead guard, we would really be able to lean into a Dire wolves style lineup that kingsxman has talked about. Mann and Caruso are my top 2 realistic targets. I think either would really help solidify our team. |
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 26, 2023 13:28:40 GMT -6
Then I think we have to push for Terance Mann from the Clippers. I don't think they'd part with him easily, but if we put together a DLo + Naz package centered around Mann coming back tp us, he would fit that bill of a physical point-wing ish player. I don't truly know how good Ant can be as a playmaker, but if he developed into a Harden-esque lead guard, we would really be able to lean into a Dire wolves style lineup that kingsxman has talked about. Mann and Caruso are my top 2 realistic targets. I think either would really help solidify our team. Is Caruso realistic? |
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Post by levine on Jan 26, 2023 14:15:48 GMT -6
Mann and Caruso are my top 2 realistic targets. I think either would really help solidify our team. Is Caruso realistic? I think its quite likely he's moved. I'm not sure we have the right ammo to get it done. |
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 26, 2023 15:42:31 GMT -6
I think its quite likely he's moved. I'm not sure we have the right ammo to get it done. It's hard to get salaries to match. It would either need to be Moore, Naz, Nowell, and Forbes (AKA Moore + expiring minimums), or Naz/Nowell + Prince. I just am not keen on trading Prince as he's one of the few 3+D wings that we have. Why get rid of something that everyone wants to get more of? Or they think Lonzo isn't going to come back and would rather have DLo as an expiring? Just seems like they need more D and cohesiveness, not less... |
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Post by quinn on Jan 26, 2023 16:01:11 GMT -6
I think its quite likely he's moved. I'm not sure we have the right ammo to get it done. Agree. I think it's much more likely that Caruso is moved than Mann. It's so hard to come up with trades for us for those mid-sized contract guys without giving up Prince. And I'm very hesitant to do that. |
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 26, 2023 19:30:58 GMT -6
I think its quite likely he's moved. I'm not sure we have the right ammo to get it done. Agree. I think it's much more likely that Caruso is moved than Mann. It's so hard to come up with trades for us for those mid-sized contract guys without giving up Prince. And I'm very hesitant to do that. You dont give up Prince. Period. |
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Post by tmirvin on Jan 26, 2023 21:54:55 GMT -6
Agree. I think it's much more likely that Caruso is moved than Mann. It's so hard to come up with trades for us for those mid-sized contract guys without giving up Prince. And I'm very hesitant to do that. You dont give up Prince.  Period. Remember how upset everyone was when the wolves traded Rubio to the Cavs and "only" got prince? |
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 26, 2023 22:32:00 GMT -6
You dont give up Prince. Period. Remember how upset everyone was when the wolves traded Rubio to the Cavs and "only" got prince? Yep. And I'd rather have Rubio. But Prince is now so much glue on this team you cant get rid of him. |
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Post by Scorched on Jan 26, 2023 22:32:00 GMT -6
I'd still rather have Rubio, and prince has wildly out played my expectations for him. As good as he is I'd still consider him for Caruso because our guards outside of ant are awful.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 27, 2023 9:35:30 GMT -6
I'd still rather have Rubio, and prince has wildly out played my expectations for him. As good as he is I'd still consider him for Caruso because our guards outside of ant are awful. The problem is that as soon as we trade Prince, we're now thin at forward. It's especially problematic given Jaden's fouling problems. Kyle Anderson is a good defender, but I think he's better suited to guarding 3/4s than pure wings. He can certainly do it, but moving Prince makes it more likely that Anderson will be sliding down. Caruso is better than Prince in a vacuum, but not sure how much he helps overall as I'd guess a lot of the wing minutes would just be filled by Ant or Rivers sliding up to play as small 3s. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 10:17:31 GMT -6
Prince is far more about who's behind him. Wolves just don't have wing size or depth, particularly with Towns out, at least that they're willing to play. Really would have tried all the young dudes over those three guard poo poo lineups.
I would have loved to have a Rubio/Ant/Gobert trio for any duration of time here, but less so in Finchy's flow. I'm glad he's reunited with JB, and a more fun offense, although, I did prefer watching Cleveland's O last year. Love the high low stuff they had with Markkanen, and the trio of Mark, Mobley, and Allen was a blast until injuries decimated them.
Plus the backcourt trio was fun with Sexton, Rubio, Garland. I like Mitchell, with two scoring guards they're so reliant on those two for offense, and puts more pressure on your 3-5 to make up for them defensively.
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Post by levine on Jan 27, 2023 10:33:34 GMT -6
I'd still rather have Rubio, and prince has wildly out played my expectations for him. As good as he is I'd still consider him for Caruso because our guards outside of ant are awful. The problem is that as soon as we trade Prince, we're now thin at forward. It's especially problematic given Jaden's fouling problems. Kyle Anderson is a good defender, but I think he's better suited to guarding 3/4s than pure wings. He can certainly do it, but moving Prince makes it more likely that Anderson will be sliding down. Caruso is better than Prince in a vacuum, but not sure how much he helps overall as I'd guess a lot of the wing minutes would just be filled by Ant or Rivers sliding up to play as small 3s. Probably should've been slowly giving minutes to Minott. I'd take Caruso over Prince because POA defense is so important these days. |
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 27, 2023 10:58:17 GMT -6
The problem is that as soon as we trade Prince, we're now thin at forward. It's especially problematic given Jaden's fouling problems. Kyle Anderson is a good defender, but I think he's better suited to guarding 3/4s than pure wings. He can certainly do it, but moving Prince makes it more likely that Anderson will be sliding down. Caruso is better than Prince in a vacuum, but not sure how much he helps overall as I'd guess a lot of the wing minutes would just be filled by Ant or Rivers sliding up to play as small 3s. Probably should've been slowly giving minutes to Minott. I'd take Caruso over Prince because POA defense is so important these days. And a better rebounder than Prince despite being a few inches shorter. He's that active guard rebounder we're craving too. My preference would be to give them Moore+expirings and keep them both, but we'll see what shakes out |
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Post by levine on Jan 27, 2023 11:23:24 GMT -6
Probably should've been slowly giving minutes to Minott. I'd take Caruso over Prince because POA defense is so important these days. And a better rebounder than Prince despite being a few inches shorter. He's that active guard rebounder we're craving too. My preference would be to give them Moore+expirings and keep them both, but we'll see what shakes out We don't really have matching expirings. Prince, Anderson and Ant are the only guys we have that make more than 2.3M and less than 31M. It would have to be something like Moore, Nowell, Reid and Forbes for Caruso. And even then we're still taking back 1M more than we're sending out. |
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 27, 2023 11:28:50 GMT -6
And a better rebounder than Prince despite being a few inches shorter. He's that active guard rebounder we're craving too. My preference would be to give them Moore+expirings and keep them both, but we'll see what shakes out We don't really have matching expirings. Prince, Anderson and Ant are the only guys we have that make more than 2.3M and less than 31M. It would have to be something like Moore, Nowell, Reid and Forbes for Caruso. And even then we're still taking back 1M more than we're sending out. Yeah, I would prefer the Moore + a bunch of low salary expirings that they can flip (Naz for two 2nds?) or waive. We'd still be a couple million under the luxury tax though right? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 11:40:07 GMT -6
It's also a good time to remember this team is live in trade talks in a way Wolves historically are not because of Cerberus's previous connections around the league. Wolves are plugged into these conversations in a real way, which is very new, and awesome.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 27, 2023 11:58:35 GMT -6
And a better rebounder than Prince despite being a few inches shorter. He's that active guard rebounder we're craving too. My preference would be to give them Moore+expirings and keep them both, but we'll see what shakes out We don't really have matching expirings. Prince, Anderson and Ant are the only guys we have that make more than 2.3M and less than 31M. It would have to be something like Moore, Nowell, Reid and Forbes for Caruso. And even then we're still taking back 1M more than we're sending out. Chicago would have to be pretty into Moore to think about that trade. If I'm them, Minott would have to be in the deal as well and even then, I'm guessing his nice run in the G League really isn't doing much as far as adding value to the deal. Overall, I'm just not seeing why Chicago would want to move Caruso for what we could offer. He's on a decent contract. No reason to be eager to deal him. Unless maybe they wanted to use him to help dump Lonzo Ball's contract? DLo for Caruso and Ball works. The Bulls get off Ball's deal in a situation where it looks possible that his knee problems have ended or significantly degraded his career. |
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Post by levine on Jan 27, 2023 12:15:21 GMT -6
Overall, I'm just not seeing why Chicago would want to move Caruso for what we could offer. He's on a decent contract. No reason to be eager to deal him. Unless maybe they wanted to use him to help dump Lonzo Ball's contract? DLo for Caruso and Ball works. The Bulls get off Ball's deal in a situation where it looks possible that his knee problems have ended or significantly degraded his career. I'd 100% take that gamble. Lonzo's injury is definitely scary, but I can't think of many better fits for this team if he was healthy. Only 25 and with a game that is reliant on athleticism, could still have a very productive career. Terrific defender and rebounder. Not the flashy passer that his brother is, but very good - especially in transition. And hasn't shot less than 38% from 3 the past 3 years - all on very high volume. The only real knock on him is he doesn't get to the line at all, or even to the basket really. |
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 27, 2023 12:49:40 GMT -6
Overall, I'm just not seeing why Chicago would want to move Caruso for what we could offer. He's on a decent contract. No reason to be eager to deal him. Unless maybe they wanted to use him to help dump Lonzo Ball's contract? DLo for Caruso and Ball works. The Bulls get off Ball's deal in a situation where it looks possible that his knee problems have ended or significantly degraded his career. I'd 100% take that gamble. Lonzo's injury is definitely scary, but I can't think of many better fits for this team if he was healthy. Only 25 and with a game that is reliant on athleticism, could still have a very productive career. Terrific defender and rebounder. Not the flashy passer that his brother is, but very good - especially in transition. And hasn't shot less than 38% from 3 the past 3 years - all on very high volume. The only real knock on him is he doesn't get to the line at all, or even to the basket really. I would as well, but it's the kind of move that most front offices/owners don't make. It also doesn't seem like teams dealing injured players really ever go that far either. It seems far more common that teams make every effort to let a guy at least try to come back and play before eventually going the injury buyout route if it does become apparent that a player is done. That said, this is a situation where maybe the Bulls would consider something like that. It's not like Caruso is so great that you need to give up something really good to get him and Ball isn't an all-star. Even if Ball does come back healthy, the Bulls look stuck as they're not good enough to contend and are really backcourt heavy. Vuc is a FA this summer and getting off Ball and Caruso would allow them options on how to rebuild the team for a short term run with Lavine and DeRozan. A healthy Ball and Caruso would IMO be exactly what you want on a team that should be giving more responsibility to Ant. A guard rotation of Ant, Ball (healthy), Caruso and JMac would be fun. |
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Post by levine on Jan 27, 2023 12:57:28 GMT -6
Chicago is in a weird spot. Its even starting to sound like there is some buyer's remorse over Zach's contract.
I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him moved. For as gifted of a 3-level scorer as he is, his decision making is still atrocious, as is his defense. Its really hard to win building around a guy like that.
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Post by kingsxman on Jan 27, 2023 13:12:10 GMT -6
I'd still rather have Rubio, and prince has wildly out played my expectations for him. As good as he is I'd still consider him for Caruso because our guards outside of ant are awful. we're now thin at forward. It's especially problematic given Jaden's fouling problems. Kyle Anderson is a good defender, but I think he's better suited to guarding 3/4s than pure wings. He can certainly do it, but moving Prince makes it more likely that Anderson will be sliding down. Caruso is better than Prince in a vacuum, but not sure how much he helps overall as I'd guess a lot of the wing minutes would just be filled by Ant or Rivers sliding up to play as small 3s. The problem is that as soon as you trade Prince, you've sent ANOTHER signal to Ant that we dont value guys that bring it every night and do the little things. Look who we've gotten rid of: Bev, Vando, Rubio. These are guys that have those intangibles that we seem to be missing and now we're talking about getting rid of another one of those guys? Count me out. Keeping players who give a shit and try each night send a message to young players that its important. Trading these guys all the time for guys who maybe have better stats sends the message that "statz is the most important thing". |
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Post by levine on Jan 27, 2023 13:14:57 GMT -6
The problem is that as soon as we trade Prince, we're now thin at forward. It's especially problematic given Jaden's fouling problems. Kyle Anderson is a good defender, but I think he's better suited to guarding 3/4s than pure wings. He can certainly do it, but moving Prince makes it more likely that Anderson will be sliding down. Caruso is better than Prince in a vacuum, but not sure how much he helps overall as I'd guess a lot of the wing minutes would just be filled by Ant or Rivers sliding up to play as small 3s. The problem is that as soon as you trade Prince, you've sent ANOTHER signal to Ant that we dont value guys that bring it every night and do the little things. Look who we've gotten rid of: Bev, Vando, Rubio. These are guys that have those intangibles that we seem to be missing and now we're talking about getting rid of another one of those guys? Count me out. Keeping players who give a shit and try each night send a message to young players that its important. Trading these guys all the time for guys who maybe have better stats sends the message that "statz is the most important thing". Is Prince more of that type of player than Caruso? You don't do all this if you aren't a total hustle player that does all the little things: |
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Post by levine on Jan 27, 2023 13:16:59 GMT -6
Also as valuable as Prince has been when he's played, he's missed almost half the season.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 27, 2023 13:17:43 GMT -6
Chicago is in a weird spot. Its even starting to sound like there is some buyer's remorse over Zach's contract. I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him moved. For as gifted of a 3-level scorer as he is, his decision making is still atrocious, as is his defense. Its really hard to win building around a guy like that. Yep. Seems like Chicago went all in on multiple "good" players, but none of them are elite. DeRozan is closest, but he's not good enough either and isn't going to get better at this stage. Getting off Lavine could be tough. What do they do? Clearing salary could free them to go after a Myles Turner in FA or maybe a Kuzma or Jerami Grant? |
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