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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 27, 2023 13:20:03 GMT -6
The problem is that as soon as we trade Prince, we're now thin at forward. It's especially problematic given Jaden's fouling problems. Kyle Anderson is a good defender, but I think he's better suited to guarding 3/4s than pure wings. He can certainly do it, but moving Prince makes it more likely that Anderson will be sliding down. Caruso is better than Prince in a vacuum, but not sure how much he helps overall as I'd guess a lot of the wing minutes would just be filled by Ant or Rivers sliding up to play as small 3s. The problem is that as soon as you trade Prince, you've sent ANOTHER signal to Ant that we dont value guys that bring it every night and do the little things. Look who we've gotten rid of: Bev, Vando, Rubio. These are guys that have those intangibles that we seem to be missing and now we're talking about getting rid of another one of those guys? Count me out. Keeping players who give a shit and try each night send a message to young players that its important. Trading these guys all the time for guys who maybe have better stats sends the message that "statz is the most important thing". Caruso is the definition of the player you're describing. He's 100% an effort guy. Not saying Prince isn't a guy who is consistent, but Caruso isn't a stats guy at all. He's absolutely the kind of guy you want next to Ant from what I know. I get what you're saying though. The move that sends a message would be the DLo for Ball and Caruso trade I mentioned. THAT is a move where you are declaring we want grit over stats. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:37:28 GMT -6
Yep. Seems like Chicago went all in on multiple "good" players, but none of them are elite. Bulls main issue is health, and I've never loved Donovan as a HC in this league. In terms of "all in on good players," that reads like teams should only be trying to win if you have a top ten guy. So the teams without Luka, Giannis or Ant should just all go home I guess. Ball, Dosunmu, LaVine, DeRozan, Caruso, Williams, Vucevic is a playoff team, maybe should have kept Green. Are they as good as the Bucks when healthy, perhaps not, but there is a chance the Bucks won't be healthy. That was a really fun team until injuries blew it up. LaVine's still not quire back to where he was team USA, but again, certain pod hosts tend to leave that out when declaring victory. Maybe in part to help teams they work for? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:46:27 GMT -6
Cough cough, for example, maybe you have a pod that works for the Golden State Warriors?
The vultures are circling. Multiple teams have inquired about Alex Caruso, per sources. The Knicks have scouted Caruso of late and own first-round picks that could be dangled with a contract like Obi Toppin if the Bulls show any inclination of trading their defensive ace. The Golden State Warriors also are cited by league sources as a potential suitor. – via NBC Sports
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Post by levine on Jan 27, 2023 14:46:32 GMT -6
Or maybe the Venn Diagram of good teams/players and teams/players that you like don't overlap as much as you'd hope?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:50:07 GMT -6
Just saying there are media, everyone knows who they are, every year Steph's MVP, Steph's a bonafied all-star (he is not as good as Ant at basketball now, and has missed more games), and miraculously nearly every helpful maybe available player would be a good fit in Golden State.
That could be it too.
I mean, a healthy Ball, LaVine, DeRozan, Caruso is awesome. What is less awesome is that same back court minus one guy altogether, one injury plagued gentlemen, and Caruso also missed a lot of time a season ago.
Injuries, injuries, injuries. End. Period. Exclamation point.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:52:27 GMT -6
I don't have a problem with media selecting all-stars, but it is a problem when some feel like it is their job to build resumes of their favorite players, versus objectively who are the best players in the current season. That has changed. Huge disservice to NBA fans.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:54:03 GMT -6
It's to the point where I would rather go just give us the rookie soph games at all-star break, and have a # of games standard for all-nba.
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 27, 2023 14:57:43 GMT -6
Just saying there are media, everyone knows who they are, who every year Steph's MVP, Steph's a bonafied all-star (he is not as good as Ant at basketball now, and has missed more games), and miraculously nearly every helpful maybe available player would be a good fit in Golden State. That could be it too. I mean, a healthy Ball, LaVine, DeRozan, Caruso is awesome. What is less awesome is that same back court minus one guy altogether, one injury plagued gentlemen, and Caruso also missed a lot of time a season ago. Injuries, injuries, injuries. End. Period. Exclamation point. I see it more as defense, defense, defense. Lavine and DeRozan aren't good at defense. Vucevic isn't a defensive stalwart. For how good those guys are on offense, as we are seeing with DLo during this hot stretch, it doesn't really matter if you're bleeding points at the other end. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:01:28 GMT -6
Well Ball, Patrick Williams, and Caruso were a big part of their defense surrounding those offensive guys, and all three miss a lot of time a year ago.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:03:54 GMT -6
In GS's prime, remove Klay, Dray, and Iggy from that team. What do we think happens?
Or even better, give Ant in 2023 prime Draymond Green the freedom to shove his defender four feet out of the play on a "screen" and we can talk about whether Steph or Ant is better.
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 27, 2023 15:11:28 GMT -6
Well Ball, Patrick Williams, and Caruso were a big part of their defense surrounding those offensive guys, and all three miss a lot of time a year ago. We've seen with the Wolves time and time again that it doesn't really matter if you are an above average offensive team if you are a well below average defensive team. That's why I have my doubts about KAT as someone that can play on a true contender. You just cannot have your stars be bad at defensive, because they are going to really cost you against good teams - especially your center! Vooch is a fun player on offense, but there is just a ceiling as to how good your defense can be with him on the back line, which is compounded by having a turnstile like Lavine at the point of attack. I like that the Bulls tried to get good, if not elite, players - it's just that there might be a reason that Lavine and Vooch have been on bad teams most of their careers... Even if they have great defensive players around them, they might just not be quite good enough offensively to overcome their defensive warts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:14:36 GMT -6
We've seen numerous teams over the years where their "best players" are not always their best defenders. I would say it's fairly common.
But yes I would rather have a true two way guy, that can defend, score, playmake, rebound. That's guys like Giannis, Leonard. Prime LeBron. That's Ant. He is him.
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 27, 2023 15:14:40 GMT -6
In GS's prime, remove Klay, Dray, and Iggy from that team. What do we think happens? Or even better, give Ant in 2023 prime Draymond Green the freedom to shove his defender four feet out of the play on a "screen" and we can talk about whether Steph or Ant is better. Stephen Curry has averaged 25.8 points, 6.6 assists and 5.2 rebounds in 56 games without Draymond Green in his career. (+299 in 2000 minutes) Stephen Curry has averaged 28.8 points, 5.9 assists and 5.2 rebounds in 129 games without Klay Thompson in his career. (+645 in 4300 minutes) He has averaged 24.5 points, 6.5 assists and 4.7 rebounds in 859 regular-season games in his career. So his stats are better without them, and he's still a positive in the plus/minus. But oh I forgot vibes are more important than stats in Darko-land. |
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 27, 2023 15:16:40 GMT -6
We've seen numerous teams over the years where they're best players are not always their best defenders. I would say it's fairly common. But yes I would rather have a true two way guy, that can defend, score, playmake, rebound. That's guys like Giannis, Leonard. Prime LeBron. That's Ant. He is him. There's a big difference between not being the team's best defender, and being a bad defender. There's a difference between having one star be average at defense, and having 3 starters being bad defenders. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:16:59 GMT -6
Regular season, and some of these invented analytical metrics have never mattered less, so when dudes are citing some of these things as never been done before, it's not real.
Give me a dude who can do what Ant does on both ends every single basketball game. He does everything, and is awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:18:05 GMT -6
Give me an average defender, and surround him by bad defenders, he will also be a very bad defender.
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Post by tmill720 on Jan 27, 2023 15:19:54 GMT -6
Regular season, and some of these invented analytical numbers have never matter less, so when dudes are citing some of these things as never been done before, it's not real. Give me a dude who can do what Ant does on both ends every single basketball game. He does everything, and is awesome. Ah I forgot you are arguing against the voices in your head, and not the posters on this board. Carry on then! |
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 27, 2023 15:22:18 GMT -6
he is not as good as Ant at basketball now, and has missed more games Cool |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:22:21 GMT -6
Just saying, in a basketball game I take the guy I can say I need a stop, I need a rebound, I need a bucket, versus the guy you say we need you to go go 4-13 tonight from three, and almost nothing else.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:22:47 GMT -6
he is not as good as Ant at basketball now, and has missed more games Cool It is very legal, and very cool. |
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 27, 2023 15:23:49 GMT -6
For some reason this just came to mind...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:24:38 GMT -6
For some reason this just came to mind... Lincoln? |
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jan 27, 2023 15:25:32 GMT -6
For some reason this just came to mind... Lincoln? Aristotle |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:27:04 GMT -6
He was probably talking about Kyle Korver.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:34:29 GMT -6
(BTW. for those of you who dont get the DIRE wolves comment: Dire wolves were from Game of Thrones. Very large wolves.) Dire Wolves is a great nickname for the big lineup. Just starting watching GOT following House of the Dragon. In season four. I like to be a little bit behind the times. |
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