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Post by The Country Club on Nov 24, 2018 5:20:29 GMT -6
bkref.com/tiny/4GZ9RWiggins' first 20 team-played games of each season. This is his worst season since his rookie year in terms of numbers. Since the trade, he's done the following: www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wiggian01/gamelog/2019/#337-342-sum:pgl_basic15.8 PPG/4.3 RPG/3.2 APG on 37%-36%-64% (17 shots per game) Between Wiggins and Teague (generally), the Wolves' starting backcourt has been trash. Obviously, Okogie should get more burn (but won't in Thibs' rotation) but should Wiggins be moved to the pine?
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Post by drdeath on Nov 24, 2018 9:35:52 GMT -6
I am so disappointed with Wiggins. As talented and gifted as he is, he just hasn’t figured it out. I would support sending him to the bench and starting Okogie in his spot. It’s important to send Wigs a message that he is NOT performing and leading like a MAX player. I don’t know what motivates this guy to be consistent and bring it every night but it’s clear just sticking with him And hoping he figures it out is not working. Okogie is raw and needs to learn but we know he will hustle and be a disrupter every minute he’s on the floor. It’s just disgraceful he’s received zero burn since the trade, especially given the lousy performance of a couple of our key starters.
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Post by Bonecrusher on Nov 24, 2018 10:34:46 GMT -6
bkref.com/tiny/4GZ9RWiggins' first 20 team-played games of each season. This is his worst season since his rookie year in terms of numbers. Since the trade, he's done the following: www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wiggian01/gamelog/2019/#337-342-sum:pgl_basic15.8 PPG/4.3 RPG/3.2 APG on 37%-36%-64% (17 shots per game) Between Wiggins and Teague (generally), the Wolves' starting backcourt has been trash. Obviously, Okogie should get more burn (but won't in Thibs' rotation) but should Wiggins be moved to the pine? Absolutely Teague or Tyus or Rose Okogie/Wiggins Covington/KBD Saric/Taj Kat/Deing But we have Thibs so remove any thought of changing something up.
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salty
Full Member
Posts: 185
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Post by salty on Nov 24, 2018 17:24:16 GMT -6
Wiggins is my least favorite player to watch play ever. Would love to love him, but I can't.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 24, 2018 20:14:39 GMT -6
Wiggins is my least favorite player to watch play ever. Would love to love him, but I can't. I'm starting to understand that. I'm feeling the same way.
I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but no more.
I'm making an announcement. I will change Wiggins career overnight by saying this.....I've given up all hope Wigs will be a useful player!!
There it is. I threw in the towell on him. Now he'll turn into a superstar. ;-|
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Post by levine on Nov 24, 2018 20:45:49 GMT -6
Wiggins is my least favorite player to watch play ever. Would love to love him, but I can't. I'm starting to understand that. I'm feeling the same way.
I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but no more.
I'm making an announcement. I will change Wiggins career overnight by saying this.....I've given up all hope Wigs will be a useful player!!
There it is. I threw in the towell on him. Now he'll turn into a superstar. ;-|
apparently you broke him even more...
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 25, 2018 5:03:04 GMT -6
After last night, Thibs needs to bury him completely for a few games and play Okogie.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 25, 2018 9:30:34 GMT -6
After last night, Thibs needs to bury him completely for a few games and play Okogie. Why not? I've advocated sitting him ocasionally. It would be good for him. Maybe light a fire under him, if that's possible.
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Post by boognish on Nov 25, 2018 10:17:12 GMT -6
It was funny to hear Jim Pete talking about how Wiggins was drafted #1 and Jabari Parker #2, and then proceed to rip Parker for having no heart on the defensive side of the ball and generally not being a good player (despite the injuries he's fought through), while watching Parker put up 27 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, two steals, and a block vs our boy Wiggins's stat line of 0 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 0 steals, and 0 blocks. Honestly, I'd trade Wiggins for Jabari in a heartbeat. In actuality, I'd trade Wiggins for just about anybody. I'm so sick of watching his clueless, lackadaisical style of play. Half the time he's about as involved in the game he's playing as I am, while sitting on my couch watching. He's my least favorite Timberwolf at this point.
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Post by boognish on Nov 25, 2018 13:51:01 GMT -6
Wiggins is averaging 15.5 pts, 3.8 rebounds, 2.3 assists @ a $25.5 million salary. Bogdan Bogdanovic has almost identical stats at $9 million per.
Is signing him to this max contract going to go down as the worst decision in franchise history?
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Post by kingsxman on Nov 25, 2018 14:07:50 GMT -6
Yes. its one thing to have off nights...its another thing to excert no effort. That is unforgivable. He should ride the pine for the forseeable future. Yes it hurts his immediate trade future by doing that but our genius coach and GM has already pretty much made it zero. So it doesnt matter.
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Post by boognish on Nov 25, 2018 14:15:06 GMT -6
Yes. its one thing to have off nights...its another thing to excert no effort. That is unforgivable. He should ride the pine for the forseeable future. Yes it hurts his immediate trade future by doing that but our genius coach and GM has already pretty much made it zero. So it doesnt matter. I find it hard to see how we could ever trade him. He hasn't shown anything during his career that would lead anyone to believe he can be an All-Star caliber player, except maybe his ability to jump high.
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Post by boognish on Nov 25, 2018 14:23:50 GMT -6
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Post by boognish on Nov 25, 2018 14:24:37 GMT -6
Something is off with the embedding of Twitter posts. Any ideas, Bonecrusher?
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Post by Bonecrusher on Nov 25, 2018 15:20:12 GMT -6
Something is off with the embedding of Twitter posts. Any ideas, Bonecrusher? Let me undo the change. Change should take place immediately.
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Post by boognish on Nov 25, 2018 15:25:51 GMT -6
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Post by Bonecrusher on Nov 25, 2018 15:27:38 GMT -6
It links it back to the forum.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 26, 2018 11:14:50 GMT -6
Britt really lays out Wiggins futility.
"The bottom line is that Wigs is again practicing awful shot selection and it remains a primary, though not only, factor in his awful shooting efficiency. Relative to other NBA wing players, Wiggins is in the 87th percentile for frequency of midrange attempts and can’t justify that volume with any semblance of accuracy — on the contrary, he is in the 24th percentile among wings for midrange shooting percentage. So when it comes shots that are already the least efficient in the NBA, one of the league’s premiere athletes is bailing out defenses by taking more and making less than the average wing.
Here are two more damning statistics from Cleaning the Glass. In the category of wing players, Wiggins’ usage rate of 22.8 puts him in the 82nd percentile — he uses more possessions than four out of five of his peers. Yet in terms of “points per shot attempt,” his mark of 92.8 points scored per 100 possessions ranks him in the 11th percentile among wings — less efficient than approximately nine out of 10 of his peers."
There has to be some way to get through to this guy. Thibs hasn't.
I say you have to challenge him. Tell him he's not as good as he thinks he is. Bench him early for lax play. Praise him for solid effort. I don't know. There has to be some way to get through to this guy.
I can't help but think the coaches somehow encourage him to take those shots just inside the 3 pt line off the dribble.
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Post by levine on Nov 26, 2018 11:22:02 GMT -6
Britt really lays out Wiggins futility.
"The bottom line is that Wigs is again practicing awful shot selection and it remains a primary, though not only, factor in his awful shooting efficiency. Relative to other NBA wing players, Wiggins is in the 87th percentile for frequency of midrange attempts and can’t justify that volume with any semblance of accuracy — on the contrary, he is in the 24th percentile among wings for midrange shooting percentage. So when it comes shots that are already the least efficient in the NBA, one of the league’s premiere athletes is bailing out defenses by taking more and making less than the average wing.
Here are two more damning statistics from Cleaning the Glass. In the category of wing players, Wiggins’ usage rate of 22.8 puts him in the 82nd percentile — he uses more possessions than four out of five of his peers. Yet in terms of “points per shot attempt,” his mark of 92.8 points scored per 100 possessions ranks him in the 11th percentile among wings — less efficient than approximately nine out of 10 of his peers."
There has to be some way to get through to this guy. Thibs hasn't.
I say you have to challenge him. Tell him he's not as good as he thinks he is. Bench him early for lax play. Praise him for solid effort. I don't know. There has to be some way to get through to this guy.
I can't help but think the coaches somehow encourage him to take those shots just inside the 3 pt line off the dribble.
Unfortunately there doesn't have to be a way. I think its pretty clear at this point that he is who he is.
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Post by kingsxman on Nov 26, 2018 12:35:31 GMT -6
Britt really lays out Wiggins futility.
"The bottom line is that Wigs is again practicing awful shot selection and it remains a primary, though not only, factor in his awful shooting efficiency. Relative to other NBA wing players, Wiggins is in the 87th percentile for frequency of midrange attempts and can’t justify that volume with any semblance of accuracy — on the contrary, he is in the 24th percentile among wings for midrange shooting percentage. So when it comes shots that are already the least efficient in the NBA, one of the league’s premiere athletes is bailing out defenses by taking more and making less than the average wing.
Here are two more damning statistics from Cleaning the Glass. In the category of wing players, Wiggins’ usage rate of 22.8 puts him in the 82nd percentile — he uses more possessions than four out of five of his peers. Yet in terms of “points per shot attempt,” his mark of 92.8 points scored per 100 possessions ranks him in the 11th percentile among wings — less efficient than approximately nine out of 10 of his peers."
There has to be some way to get through to this guy. Thibs hasn't.
I say you have to challenge him. Tell him he's not as good as he thinks he is. Bench him early for lax play. Praise him for solid effort. I don't know. There has to be some way to get through to this guy.
I can't help but think the coaches somehow encourage him to take those shots just inside the 3 pt line off the dribble.
So is it just me (and my son actually) or has Britt gone a bit overboard with the use of the english language lately in his columns? I love his stuff and usually like the fact that his columns can be a bit "heady"...but they are getting increasingly harder to read. My son and I were talking last night that both of us have to read hit stuff multiple times now to try to get his point..... This last column in particular was near impossible to get through....
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Post by XRaySpecs on Nov 26, 2018 13:04:02 GMT -6
Britt really lays out Wiggins futility.
"The bottom line is that Wigs is again practicing awful shot selection and it remains a primary, though not only, factor in his awful shooting efficiency. Relative to other NBA wing players, Wiggins is in the 87th percentile for frequency of midrange attempts and can’t justify that volume with any semblance of accuracy — on the contrary, he is in the 24th percentile among wings for midrange shooting percentage. So when it comes shots that are already the least efficient in the NBA, one of the league’s premiere athletes is bailing out defenses by taking more and making less than the average wing.
Here are two more damning statistics from Cleaning the Glass. In the category of wing players, Wiggins’ usage rate of 22.8 puts him in the 82nd percentile — he uses more possessions than four out of five of his peers. Yet in terms of “points per shot attempt,” his mark of 92.8 points scored per 100 possessions ranks him in the 11th percentile among wings — less efficient than approximately nine out of 10 of his peers."
There has to be some way to get through to this guy. Thibs hasn't.
I say you have to challenge him. Tell him he's not as good as he thinks he is. Bench him early for lax play. Praise him for solid effort. I don't know. There has to be some way to get through to this guy.
I can't help but think the coaches somehow encourage him to take those shots just inside the 3 pt line off the dribble.
Unfortunately there doesn't have to be a way. I think its pretty clear at this point that he is who he is. I agree that expecting Wiggins to improve into something he's not isn't realistic at this point, but can't we at least expect him to do some of the things he did well as a younger guy? He used to get to the line a decent amount. If he could (with the help of scheming) get back to doing more of that and maintain his improvement in 3 pt % and volume, then we might have a guy who could at least score a little more efficiently. Jeesh...it's right there on video! He's never going to be a guy who fills a box score with rebounds, assists etc., but he's been better than he is now offensively.
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Post by levine on Nov 26, 2018 13:08:01 GMT -6
Unfortunately there doesn't have to be a way. I think its pretty clear at this point that he is who he is. I agree that expecting Wiggins to improve into something he's not isn't realistic at this point, but can't we at least expect him to do some of the things he did well as a younger guy? He used to get to the line a decent amount. If he could (with the help of scheming) get back to doing more of that and maintain his improvement in 3 pt % and volume, then we might have a guy who could at least score a little more efficiently. Jeesh...it's right there on video! He's never going to be a guy who fills a box score with rebounds, assists etc., but he's been better than he is now offensively. That was only because we used to run our entire offense through him. It resulted in pretty PPG numbers for him, but not wins. Unfortunately, he's not capable of doing it on his own within the flow of an offense. He's got the first step of a 350 pounder and a limited handle/change of direction (other than that sweet Eurostep when he has a clear path to the basket and a head of steam built up).
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Post by XRaySpecs on Nov 26, 2018 13:57:47 GMT -6
I agree that expecting Wiggins to improve into something he's not isn't realistic at this point, but can't we at least expect him to do some of the things he did well as a younger guy? He used to get to the line a decent amount. If he could (with the help of scheming) get back to doing more of that and maintain his improvement in 3 pt % and volume, then we might have a guy who could at least score a little more efficiently. Jeesh...it's right there on video! He's never going to be a guy who fills a box score with rebounds, assists etc., but he's been better than he is now offensively. That was only because we used to run our entire offense through him. It resulted in pretty PPG numbers for him, but not wins. Unfortunately, he's not capable of doing it on his own within the flow of an offense. He's got the first step of a 350 pounder and a limited handle/change of direction (other than that sweet Eurostep when he has a clear path to the basket and a head of steam built up). I know he was more of a focal point on offense then, but it's not like we're not running plays for him now. His usage was higher given how much he got to the line, but he's actually attempting more FG/36 than his 2nd year when he posted his best TS% and FTA. We don't need to run the volume of what we ran for him then, just the same types of plays that generated FTA and higher efficiency. Keep him shooting 3s though instead of the midrange Js.
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Post by levine on Nov 26, 2018 14:09:25 GMT -6
That was only because we used to run our entire offense through him. It resulted in pretty PPG numbers for him, but not wins. Unfortunately, he's not capable of doing it on his own within the flow of an offense. He's got the first step of a 350 pounder and a limited handle/change of direction (other than that sweet Eurostep when he has a clear path to the basket and a head of steam built up). I know he was more of a focal point on offense then, but it's not like we're not running plays for him now. His usage was higher given how much he got to the line, but he's actually attempting more FG/36 than his 2nd year when he posted his best TS% and FTA. We don't need to run the volume of what we ran for him then, just the same types of plays that generated FTA and higher efficiency. Keep him shooting 3s though instead of the midrange Js. The problem is when he was getting to the line a bunch it was because Flip was force-feeding him all those touches at the elbow. It was 1 move and get to the line or (more often) get bottled up. If we're going to force our offense through anyone at the elbow, it absolutely should be KAT (who is devastating there, unlike Wiggins who is really pretty bad there).
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Post by Nick K on Nov 26, 2018 15:08:22 GMT -6
Britt really lays out Wiggins futility.
"The bottom line is that Wigs is again practicing awful shot selection and it remains a primary, though not only, factor in his awful shooting efficiency. Relative to other NBA wing players, Wiggins is in the 87th percentile for frequency of midrange attempts and can’t justify that volume with any semblance of accuracy — on the contrary, he is in the 24th percentile among wings for midrange shooting percentage. So when it comes shots that are already the least efficient in the NBA, one of the league’s premiere athletes is bailing out defenses by taking more and making less than the average wing.
Here are two more damning statistics from Cleaning the Glass. In the category of wing players, Wiggins’ usage rate of 22.8 puts him in the 82nd percentile — he uses more possessions than four out of five of his peers. Yet in terms of “points per shot attempt,” his mark of 92.8 points scored per 100 possessions ranks him in the 11th percentile among wings — less efficient than approximately nine out of 10 of his peers."
There has to be some way to get through to this guy. Thibs hasn't.
I say you have to challenge him. Tell him he's not as good as he thinks he is. Bench him early for lax play. Praise him for solid effort. I don't know. There has to be some way to get through to this guy.
I can't help but think the coaches somehow encourage him to take those shots just inside the 3 pt line off the dribble.
So is it just me (and my son actually) or has Britt gone a bit overboard with the use of the english language lately in his columns? I love his stuff and usually like the fact that his columns can be a bit "heady"...but they are getting increasingly harder to read. My son and I were talking last night that both of us have to read hit stuff multiple times now to try to get his point..... This last column in particular was near impossible to get through.... Yep, that tends to be Brits style. It does get a bit tiresome. The "Godot" term went over my head. I had to look it up. It refers to a character in a play that is expected to arrive but never shows up. He uses this as an analogy to Wiggins. It's a little esoteric for my taste.
That said, I did like his piece on Wiggins today as it mirrors my feelings. I've tried to give the kid the benefit of the doubt. I just can't get out of my head that he goes to another team, they reach him, and he blows up big time.
It's funny that 5 years ago I was arguing he was fools gold and wasn't enough return for K Love.
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