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Post by levine on Sept 14, 2018 12:26:19 GMT -6
Shams Charania✔@shamscharania Sources: The Knicks and center Joakim Noah are expected to part ways before training camp; team has continued to work trade calls, although waiving and stretching Noah's contract looms as a route.
10:12 AM - Sep 14, 2018
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Post by cory on Sept 15, 2018 15:51:02 GMT -6
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 43s44 seconds ago More Jimmy Butler's meeting w/ Minnesota management early next week as @jonkrawczynski reports. Butler, Tom Thibodeau have had a strong relationship for years, but there are organizational issues that need to be sorted. Source on meeting: "Whatever needs to be communicated...will be."
Jon Krawczynski
@jonkrawczynski 4m4 minutes ago More Adding injury to insult for the Wolves, sources tell myself and @shamscharania that Justin Patton broke his right foot in workouts this week. His left foot has needed two surgeries already. What a tough one.
Should Patton's feet have been something that should have been caught in medical evaluations before acquiring him? This seems like a degenerative thing if you have this many issues in this short of a time.
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Post by cory on Sept 15, 2018 16:13:50 GMT -6
The thing I hope comes out of this meeting is that Jimmy sets specific expectations for coming back or if he's decided to move on he's up front on that. I think he values his relationship with Thibs enough to be upfront with him and he's a pretty straight forward person.
I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy doesn't finish the season with the Wolves at this point. This isn't trying to sound an alarm bell or be pessimistic but I'm not sure he sees this team as being good enough to win a title and I expect him to say that. I just hope Thibs and Layden are realistic about their prospects in this situation.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 15, 2018 20:58:49 GMT -6
The thing I hope comes out of this meeting is that Jimmy sets specific expectations for coming back or if he's decided to move on he's up front on that. I think he values his relationship with Thibs enough to be upfront with him and he's a pretty straight forward person.I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy doesn't finish the season with the Wolves at this point. This isn't trying to sound an alarm bell or be pessimistic but I'm not sure he sees this team as being good enough to win a title and I expect him to say that. I just hope Thibs and Layden are realistic about their prospects in this situation.
I agree on all Cory. Especially hopeful that Jimmy is up-front with the organization about where he's at. He owes us at least that.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 16, 2018 0:32:16 GMT -6
More on this.
Jimmy Butler, Tom Thibodeau to talk state of Timberwolves, sources say 12:00 AM CT Adrian Wojnarowski ESPN Facebook Twitter Facebook Messenger Pinterest Email print A meeting set between Minnesota Timberwolves four-time All-Star Jimmy Butler and president of basketball operations/coach Tom Thibodeau is expected to set the tone for Butler's final season under contract -- and his impending free agency in July, league sources told ESPN on Saturday.
Just days before the start of training camp in Minneapolis, Butler and his agent, Bernie Lee, are planning to meet with Thibodeau on Monday in Minneapolis for what's expected to be a serious conversation on the franchise's fragile state, sources said.
"Whatever needs to be communicated ... will be," one league source briefed on the meeting told ESPN.
The Athletic first reported the scheduling of the meeting.
The Thibodeau-Butler relationship has been largely strong since the Bulls drafted Butler in 2011, but Butler's partnership with young star Karl-Anthony Towns has been strained and remains an obstacle to the 2018-19 team's success --- and perhaps the ability to sign Butler to a new contract next summer, league sources said.
Minnesota can offer Butler a five-year, $189.7 million max contract -- with a max deal elsewhere worth four years, $140.6 million.
The Timberwolves are negotiating a rookie extension with Towns that could be completed before the start of the season. Rival executives believe that Butler could come available on the market by the February trade deadline if Minnesota fears that it will lose him for nothing in July free agency.
Butler, 29, will be the subject of an intense recruitment in July free agency, which includes the possibility of six maximum contract slots among the four New York and Los Angeles teams. Butler has never been enamored with the idea of a big market, but rather with feeling that's he's surrounded with like-minded players who'll give him a chance for annual postseason success.
The Butler-Towns tension is paramount, but it's hardly the only organizational drama that's threatening to undermine the franchise's current structure. Owner Glen Taylor has significant concern with the broader franchise culture under Thibodeau and general manager Scott Layden -- so much so that Taylor considered changes in the offseason, league sources said. Taylor has privately second-guessed his decision to give Thibodeau full control of basketball operations as a part of hiring him as coach, league sources said.
From friction within the locker room to the basketball operations group's poor relationship with the business side, Butler's looming free agency only elevates the stakes for Thibodeau's future. Thibodeau is starting the third year of a five-year deal.
Thibodeau is under tremendous pressure to re-sign Butler, for whom the Wolves traded Zach LaVine, Kris Dunn and a No. 7 overall pick that turned into Lauri Markkanen in 2017.
The Timberwolves qualified for the playoffs on the final night of the 2017-18 regular season, reaching the postseason for the first time in 13 years.
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Post by levine on Sept 16, 2018 11:18:56 GMT -6
It sounds like the meeting with Butler is in response to KAT’s people going to Taylor about the divide between the 2 stars.
Strong rumors that Butler was heavily involved in why KAT and his model GF broke up too.
Just a cluster of disfunction. Apparently no Wolves spent any time together this offseason - including almost no one showing up at Summer League.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 16, 2018 17:01:22 GMT -6
It sounds like the meeting with Butler is in response to KAT’s people going to Taylor about the divide between the 2 stars. Strong rumors that Butler was heavily involved in why KAT and his model GF broke up too. Just a cluster of disfunction. Apparently no Wolves spent any time together this offseason - including almost no one showing up at Summer League. WOW! Super disappointing. Butler must be a total piece of work. No wonder the Bulls couldn't wait to get rid of him.
Good scoop on the KAT and model GF breakup. They seemed tight. It won't take long for him to snuggle up to another "10" beauty.
Who knows what this will do to the team. It's usually bad but there have been teams that have won with players that didn't like each other.
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Post by kingsxman on Sept 16, 2018 18:11:41 GMT -6
It sounds like the meeting with Butler is in response to KAT’s people going to Taylor about the divide between the 2 stars. Strong rumors that Butler was heavily involved in why KAT and his model GF broke up too. Just a cluster of disfunction. Apparently no Wolves spent any time together this offseason - including almost no one showing up at Summer League. Maybe you can tell me exactly what is going on with this as I was unable to make heads or tails of the innuendo and cute responses on Canis to this. So KAT and his girlfriend DID break up? I thought that they were very serious. Serious like doing lots of church work together, etc. How did Butler break them up? And there somehow was something about Rubio referred to in the whole thing...which made no sense to me as KAT and his GF were still together long after Rubio left town.... If Butler really did have something to do with that...what a dick! NBA players arent saints by any stretch of the imagination..and if a girl gets invovled with them she has to figure that it may not be an easy road. But to have other players on your own team actively doing things to wreck your relationship...thats beyond bad. Thats "locker room" cancer type stuff.
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Post by cory on Sept 17, 2018 9:41:54 GMT -6
It sounds like the meeting with Butler is in response to KAT’s people going to Taylor about the divide between the 2 stars. Strong rumors that Butler was heavily involved in why KAT and his model GF broke up too. Just a cluster of disfunction. Apparently no Wolves spent any time together this offseason - including almost no one showing up at Summer League. WOW! Super disappointing. Butler must be a total piece of work. No wonder the Bulls couldn't wait to get rid of him.
Good scoop on the KAT and model GF breakup. They seemed tight. It won't take long for him to snuggle up to another "10" beauty.
Who knows what this will do to the team. It's usually bad but there have been teams that have won with players that didn't like each other.
Butler will have some interesting decisions to make. His role on the Wolves should have been the ultimate role for him. He was with a young, potentially dominant big, a wing with elite talent but is more of a passive personality, and a coach that adores him. Jimmy not being able to bring more out of this situation makes me think he may be destined to be a very good-great player who never really wins anything. He's not talented enough to win titles on his own, he's too much of an alpha to cede anything to younger guys who clearly have more talent (KAT offensively), and he likely is too much of an alpha to co-exist with other great players. Maybe going to LA he would check his ego but I don't think he really has that in him. How many times did Jimmy take horrible shots at the end of games because he really believes he's always the best option? One time he took an off balance two pointer when we were down by 3 as time expired. There's a disconnect on what he can actually do and what he thinks he can do. He's a great player, but he does think he's the best player on the court at all times and that just isn't true of his offense.
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Post by levine on Sept 17, 2018 10:41:12 GMT -6
It sounds like the meeting with Butler is in response to KAT’s people going to Taylor about the divide between the 2 stars. Strong rumors that Butler was heavily involved in why KAT and his model GF broke up too. Just a cluster of disfunction. Apparently no Wolves spent any time together this offseason - including almost no one showing up at Summer League. Maybe you can tell me exactly what is going on with this as I was unable to make heads or tails of the innuendo and cute responses on Canis to this. So KAT and his girlfriend DID break up? I thought that they were very serious. Serious like doing lots of church work together, etc. How did Butler break them up? And there somehow was something about Rubio referred to in the whole thing...which made no sense to me as KAT and his GF were still together long after Rubio left town.... If Butler really did have something to do with that...what a dick! NBA players arent saints by any stretch of the imagination..and if a girl gets invovled with them she has to figure that it may not be an easy road. But to have other players on your own team actively doing things to wreck your relationship...thats beyond bad. Thats "locker room" cancer type stuff. ALL of her pictures have been removed from KAT's social media. That's almost always a sign of a bad breakup. I guess the rumor is she cheated on KAT with Jimmy...
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Post by levine on Sept 17, 2018 10:41:43 GMT -6
Shams:
• Last ditch meeting between Jimmy and team. This week will be pivotal. • Team has a lot of internal battles between Jimmy/KAT/Wiggins. • Towns won’t decide on extension until Butler situation is resolved.
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Post by cory on Sept 17, 2018 10:49:15 GMT -6
Maybe you can tell me exactly what is going on with this as I was unable to make heads or tails of the innuendo and cute responses on Canis to this. So KAT and his girlfriend DID break up? I thought that they were very serious. Serious like doing lots of church work together, etc. How did Butler break them up? And there somehow was something about Rubio referred to in the whole thing...which made no sense to me as KAT and his GF were still together long after Rubio left town.... If Butler really did have something to do with that...what a dick! NBA players arent saints by any stretch of the imagination..and if a girl gets invovled with them she has to figure that it may not be an easy road. But to have other players on your own team actively doing things to wreck your relationship...thats beyond bad. Thats "locker room" cancer type stuff. ALL of her pictures have been removed from KAT's social media. That's almost always a sign of a bad breakup. I guess the rumor is she cheated on KAT with Jimmy... If that's true, Jimmy needs to go.
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Post by kingsxman on Sept 17, 2018 10:57:51 GMT -6
ALL of her pictures have been removed from KAT's social media. That's almost always a sign of a bad breakup. I guess the rumor is she cheated on KAT with Jimmy... If that's true, Jimmy needs to go. Yep. And if thats true...Thibs should have been on this early this summer because he had to know that Jimmy would be a locker room cancer at this point.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 17, 2018 11:04:20 GMT -6
WOW! Super disappointing. Butler must be a total piece of work. No wonder the Bulls couldn't wait to get rid of him.
Good scoop on the KAT and model GF breakup. They seemed tight. It won't take long for him to snuggle up to another "10" beauty.
Who knows what this will do to the team. It's usually bad but there have been teams that have won with players that didn't like each other.
Butler will have some interesting decisions to make. His role on the Wolves should have been the ultimate role for him. He was with a young, potentially dominant big, a wing with elite talent but is more of a passive personality, and a coach that adores him. Jimmy not being able to bring more out of this situation makes me think he may be destined to be a very good-great player who never really wins anything. He's not talented enough to win titles on his own, he's too much of an alpha to cede anything to younger guys who clearly have more talent (KAT offensively), and he likely is too much of an alpha to co-exist with other great players. Maybe going to LA he would check his ego but I don't think he really has that in him. How many times did Jimmy take horrible shots at the end of games because he really believes he's always the best option? One time he took an off balance two pointer when we were down by 3 as time expired. There's a disconnect on what he can actually do and what he thinks he can do. He's a great player, but he does think he's the best player on the court at all times and that just isn't true of his offense.
I agree with all especially that...
"His role on the Wolves should have been the ultimate role for him. He was with a young, potentially dominant big, a wing with elite talent but is more of a passive personality, and a coach that adores him. Jimmy not being able to bring more out of this situation makes me think he may be destined to be a very good-great player who never really wins anything. He's not talented enough to win titles on his own, he's too much of an alpha to cede anything to younger guys who clearly have more talent (KAT offensively), and he likely is too much of an alpha to co-exist with other great players. Maybe going to LA he would check his ego but I don't think he really has that in him."
That sums him up nicely. Well done.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 17, 2018 11:08:49 GMT -6
Shams: • Last ditch meeting between Jimmy and team. This week will be pivotal. • Team has a lot of internal battles between Jimmy/KAT/Wiggins. • Towns won’t decide on extension until Butler situation is resolved. It's time for Jimmy to go and the sooner the better.
Nothing is worse than a betrayal like that...if true.
I heard KG and his wife Brandi were divorcing too. Tough times for sure.
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Post by levine on Sept 17, 2018 11:20:10 GMT -6
If that's true, Jimmy needs to go. Yep. And if thats true...Thibs should have been on this early this summer because he had to know that Jimmy would be a locker room cancer at this point. Thibs doesn't care about that kind of stuff. He's never had a personal life because all he cares about is basketball from a decade ago.
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Post by levine on Sept 17, 2018 16:43:46 GMT -6
Nate and Eric at Canis:
Nate:
Eric:
Nate:
Eric:
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Post by Nick K on Sept 17, 2018 17:50:26 GMT -6
No way Glen Taylor takes Butler or Thibs over KAT. No way.
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Post by levine on Sept 17, 2018 18:30:07 GMT -6
No way Glen Taylor takes Butler or Thibs over KAT. No way. I don't think so either, but Nate makes a fair point. KAT is going to have better trade value than Jimmy and Taylor wouldn't have to cut that massive check to Thibs. If Taylor didn't hate Thibs as a human being, I 100% feel that he'd trade KAT. And then he'd shit all over him to the media after doing it - because Taylor is kind of the worst.
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Post by cory on Sept 17, 2018 21:48:22 GMT -6
We're just in a hopeless spot now. A functioning and well run team would not be in this place but if there was this big of a rift in the players, and it was clear one of them was going to leave, they would be dealt. You don't give up assets for Butler and then lose him for nothing in the span of 2 years if you are a competent front office.
So our options are:
1) Status quo, Butler leaves next summer, Towns is still disgruntled because Thibs is here and the handling of the situation has been a mess. 2) Trade Butler, fire Thibs, rebuild. 3) Trade KAT, Thibs stays, Jimmy still possibly leaves.
2 is the only palatable option for me.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 18, 2018 2:25:23 GMT -6
The way forward is easy for me. I'd throw open the Jimmy Butler sweepstakes right now. Give me a Khris Middleton type plus a good #1 and you can have him.
We may have to hold off till the trade deadline but that would be less desirable.
Next I'd fire Thibs immediately and eat the loss. Sometimes you just have to do it. That probably won't happen though. Regardless, this has to be Thibs last season. KAT has to be the guy you build around.
I long for the days when we had KAT, Wigs and Lavine who were so close and loved playing ball together.
This whole thing is a damned shame. We have a lot of talent and the makings of a hell of a team. I'm not saying we'll win a championship but we can go deep. Who knows?
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Post by kingsxman on Sept 18, 2018 5:27:13 GMT -6
So whats super frustrating is I was listening to Sirius XM NBA radio for about 5 minutes yesterday and the dudes that were on there were talking about the Wolves and how dumb we are as fans. They just couldnt get past the fact that the team improved 16 games and we hadnt been to the playoffs in 13 years ...and we were complaining. Why would we complain? Maybe we dont deserve a winning team.. That was their stance..
I really wish people would do their F***ing jobs and put a little more effort into their reporting.
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Post by BIG BAD WOLF on Sept 18, 2018 6:47:33 GMT -6
Not to be nit picking, but how was Thibs supposed to know Buckets is putting the moves on KAT's GF? And shouldn't KAT be happy the girl did what he did (assuming she had a consensual relationship with JB) now rather than after he married her? JB was a dick for this move, but in a convoluted way, he actually did KAT a big favor. I do not know any of these persons at a personal level, but KAT strikes me as the kind of clean cut kid who deserves better than the standard gold-digging "supermodel"...
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Post by cory on Sept 18, 2018 8:26:59 GMT -6
Not to be nit picking, but how was Thibs supposed to know Buckets is putting the moves on KAT's GF? And shouldn't KAT be happy the girl did what he did (assuming she had a consensual relationship with JB) now rather than after he married her? JB was a dick for this move, but in a convoluted way, he actually did KAT a big favor. I do not know any of these persons at a personal level, but KAT strikes me as the kind of clean cut kid who deserves better than the standard gold-digging "supermodel"... I respect Levine but that is a pure rumor that we have no proof of so I don't think we should dive into the merits of it. And if it did happen, that in no way is a favor.
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Post by tjstyles on Sept 18, 2018 10:34:00 GMT -6
I am sure this won't be a popular opinion, but if a team was willing to take Wiggins off our hands as well, I may be open to dealing KAT and building around Butler. But, I'm not willing to try and build around Butler with Wiggins' massive contract eating up all of our cap space to get good talent around Butler. I'd also want at least a verbal agreement that we would be in consideration for Butler to stick around if that were to happen. If Butler was already over MN it would not make sense for us to make a deal to clear the roster for him. If that were the case, I might wait until next season to make the move so we could be ready to give Butler the contract immediately following the deal. Besides, other teams would have more cap space to be able to take on both KAT and Wiggins and not have to send back empty salary.
But, to me, the best scenario is still keeping KAT. Ultimately I would rather have KAT and get something for Butler, even if it's small and we have to keep Wiggins. But, if we can dump Wiggins and get a KAT-level asset back while securing Butler long-term, I would be open to that. Sucks that we are in this situation at all. And, I find it interesting that the one and only move Thibs did that I liked may actually be the move that completely decimates this team. Say what you will about Kahn...he never put us here. There was apparently a rift between Rubio and Love, which is very similar to this situation with Rubio and Butler being Kahn/Thibs' guys and Love and KAT being the previous GM's guys, but Rubio and Love figured out how to coexist. Though, I have to say that KAT and Butler are more to blame than Thibs; you need to learn how to get along with the people you work with. But, Thibs certainly isn't fixing the problem very well.
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