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Post by levine on Jul 19, 2024 15:52:58 GMT -6
Sure, but my point is he's being asked to play a different role than he has in the past while playing against better competition than he has in the past with players he's never played with before. So basically, relax. Most guys take years to acclimate to the NBA, this was a pick for down the road - remember ant hasn't turned 23 yet. Yes, x-ray is freaking out because he thinks he was drafted as the backup PG with the expectation that he'd be good this year. I'm going by what Connelly himself has said. He literally said he's the backup PG for next year. Basketball isn't defined by positions anymore. Why does dilly have to be a back up PG? What does a PG even do anymore? What does Conley do? He runs the pick and roll and rarely goes all the way to the cup and hits spot up jumpers. I'm not worried about back up PG minutes. Ant handles the ball the entire time he's in the game. How many times last year was it discussed about how the offense bogs down in aimless possessions? Leading up to the trade deadline, the supposed needs of the team were backup PG, movement shooter, and bucket getter. Connelly himself decided that the #1 need was a backup PG in making the deal for Morris. That aspect of offense is important on a team with so many high TO players. How many times was our mediocre offense discussed last year? One of the big reasons it was 19th was TOs and we project to be significantly worse with TOs next replacing Morris/JMac with Dilly and Kyle with Ingles. Yes, the NBA has become more positionless, but that's because players are able to fill multiple roles. Playmaking and organization are 2 of those skills and the team lost a lot of those skills this offseason with who went out the door. Dilly doesn't have to be the "backup PG", but he's been pumped by Connelly as a guy who will play. I don't care what position he's listed at. If he's this level of shooter, he's unplayable. Finally, everyone raves about how smart Connelly is and how he finds all these gems out of nowhere. I'm willing to give him a longer leash than a couple weeks in the middle of the summer in Vegas. Dillingham hasn't even been to camp yet. Connelly certainly is a good executive, but he's not perfect. He's had a lot to do with our current level of team though so again, I'm not out on Rob's career after a SL. Just questioning the process for this upcoming season. I understand giving him a longer leash, but I'm wondering what your reaction will be if the Wolves go through a 20 game stretch where Conley's out with a groin strain, we can't stop turning the ball over and Dilly is shooting 30% from 3 while getting hunted on D? With both our outbound PGs gone for just the minimum, it seems like a situation that could be avoided prospectively. Another question...what do you think of Connelly's quotes/intentions as far as a rookie lotto PG in general for this year? If you were in charge, would you have looked at our window and decided that we should count on a rookie guard given the history of contributions from similarly drafted rookies? Or maybe our offense is differently better because the thing that Dilly has shown the most in SL is he's terrific in transition and he can push the pace. Something we really struggled with last year. And something a guy like Morris doesn't help with at all. I've been looking at similar sized PGs first SL games and struggling shooting is really common. Curry was in the low 30s, Trae was in the 20s. Irving didn't play in SL and he really struggled shooting in his first preseason. And I get that Dilly will be playing against much better players, but he'll also be playing WITH much better players. No defense is going to be set up to stop him from scoring. I just can't get worried yet. He was drafted 3 weeks ago. He's had no training camp and probably only a handful of practices - that likely were pretty vanilla at best. By all accounts he's a gym rat, a super hard worker and very driven. I'm super curious/excited to see what he is in 3 months.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jul 19, 2024 16:01:28 GMT -6
Or maybe our offense is differently better because the thing that Dilly has shown the most in SL is he's terrific in transition and he can push the pace. Something we really struggled with last year. And something a guy like Morris doesn't help with at all. I've been looking at similar sized PGs first SL games and struggling shooting is really common. Curry was in the low 30s, Trae was in the 20s. Irving didn't play in SL and he really struggled shooting in his first preseason. And I get that Dilly will be playing against much better players, but he'll also be playing WITH much better players. No defense is going to be set up to stop him from scoring. I just can't get worried yet. He was drafted 3 weeks ago. He's had no training camp and probably only a handful of practices - that likely were pretty vanilla at best. By all accounts he's a gym rat, a super hard worker and very driven. I'm super curious/excited to see what he is in 3 months. I'm not going to compare Dilly to the greatest shooter of all time and Kyrie was an utterly different guy as a finisher, but Young is a fair comp. Trae put up good counting numbers his rookie year after struggling in SL, but he was not efficient doing so. It just seems to preventable. We know the stats on rookie guards being productive. We know it's harder for small guards (and Rob is TINY). Why are we just giving him a role next year? I get that guys don't want to come here to be the 3rd guard so why is that all we're offering? We should be a great situation for a 1 year PG trying to build their value given that our PG is 37 and the rest of the team. I'm not worried about Rob's long term future yet either. I'm worried about next year only.
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Post by levine on Jul 19, 2024 16:23:40 GMT -6
How many of those guys who struggled as rookies were joining a 56 win team?
Dilly isn't going to have to do the heavy lifting that most lottery picks need to.
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Post by jojo on Jul 19, 2024 17:17:42 GMT -6
I’m disappointed with his shooting and finishing, but you can’t deny how incredibly quick he is. He has to figure out how to get through traffic and shake his shooting woes, but will have more than a couple summer league games to do it.
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Post by Nick K on Jul 19, 2024 19:01:58 GMT -6
I'm going by what Connelly himself has said. He literally said he's the backup PG for next year. How many times last year was it discussed about how the offense bogs down in aimless possessions? Leading up to the trade deadline, the supposed needs of the team were backup PG, movement shooter, and bucket getter. Connelly himself decided that the #1 need was a backup PG in making the deal for Morris. That aspect of offense is important on a team with so many high TO players. How many times was our mediocre offense discussed last year? One of the big reasons it was 19th was TOs and we project to be significantly worse with TOs next replacing Morris/JMac with Dilly and Kyle with Ingles. Yes, the NBA has become more positionless, but that's because players are able to fill multiple roles. Playmaking and organization are 2 of those skills and the team lost a lot of those skills this offseason with who went out the door. Dilly doesn't have to be the "backup PG", but he's been pumped by Connelly as a guy who will play. I don't care what position he's listed at. If he's this level of shooter, he's unplayable. Connelly certainly is a good executive, but he's not perfect. He's had a lot to do with our current level of team though so again, I'm not out on Rob's career after a SL. Just questioning the process for this upcoming season. I understand giving him a longer leash, but I'm wondering what your reaction will be if the Wolves go through a 20 game stretch where Conley's out with a groin strain, we can't stop turning the ball over and Dilly is shooting 30% from 3 while getting hunted on D? With both our outbound PGs gone for just the minimum, it seems like a situation that could be avoided prospectively. Another question...what do you think of Connelly's quotes/intentions as far as a rookie lotto PG in general for this year? If you were in charge, would you have looked at our window and decided that we should count on a rookie guard given the history of contributions from similarly drafted rookies? Or maybe our offense is differently better because the thing that Dilly has shown the most in SL is he's terrific in transition and he can push the pace. Something we really struggled with last year. And something a guy like Morris doesn't help with at all. I've been looking at similar sized PGs first SL games and struggling shooting is really common. Curry was in the low 30s, Trae was in the 20s. Irving didn't play in SL and he really struggled shooting in his first preseason. And I get that Dilly will be playing against much better players, but he'll also be playing WITH much better players. No defense is going to be set up to stop him from scoring. I just can't get worried yet. He was drafted 3 weeks ago. He's had no training camp and probably only a handful of practices - that likely were pretty vanilla at best. By all accounts he's a gym rat, a super hard worker and very driven. I'm super curious/excited to see what he is in 3 months. Yes to all!
People worrying about Dilly at this point is short sighted. He will be just fine.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jul 19, 2024 19:14:15 GMT -6
How many of those guys who struggled as rookies were joining a 56 win team? Dilly isn't going to have to do the heavy lifting that most lottery picks need to. Certainly there are paths where Dillingham has a successful season. It's not impossible. I'm just trying to be realistic in projecting him next year. What do you/we think is a realistic projection for Dillingham's stats next year givenwhat we know presently? What FG%? 3pt%? Ass/TO? Considering that Dilly is likely to be a negative defensively what do those numbers have to be so that he's actually helpful?
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Post by levine on Jul 19, 2024 20:32:04 GMT -6
How many of those guys who struggled as rookies were joining a 56 win team? Dilly isn't going to have to do the heavy lifting that most lottery picks need to. Certainly there are paths where Dillingham has a successful season. It's not impossible. I'm just trying to be realistic in projecting him next year. What do you/we think is a realistic projection for Dillingham's stats next year givenwhat we know presently? What FG%? 3pt%? Ass/TO? Considering that Dilly is likely to be a negative defensively what do those numbers have to be so that he's actually helpful? I have no idea. It’s all about how he compliments the other players.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jul 20, 2024 7:11:09 GMT -6
I have no idea. It’s all about how he compliments the other players. You posted the shooting #s for Dennis Smith Jr as an example of someone who gives "nothing" offensively. Smith was 43/30/74 last year. I'd be pretty surprised if Dilly shot 43% from the field next year with how he struggled to finish in SL at his current size. I think he'll shoot the 3 better than Smith especially with more frequency, but overall it might not be great. I don't think Dilly will get to the line much. Maybe he'll be much better taking open 3s off ball? That's likely the path for him to be helpful next year, but it's not like SL was encouraging there either. Dillingham's 3pt % is going to huge next year. If he's not hitting them it could be rough. I expect Dilly to be a better playmaker than Smith is, but Smith has improved in "PG" like things like A/TO where he's been 3/1 in the last 2 seasons. Dilly was <2/1 in college. As far as how Dillingham compliments others, I get that he'll help push the pace, but I'll believe it when I see it that a team who plays Rudy and KAT the minutes they do is going to be playing fast. How much can we increase the pace and how much will that really help? How he complements others offensively has to be significant to make the aggregate of our offense better given the high likelihood that we're going to turn the ball over more than we did last year. And then there's the D which really doesn't need discussion.
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Post by levine on Jul 20, 2024 9:27:04 GMT -6
but Smith has improved in "PG" like things like A/TO where he's been 3/1 in the last 2 seasons. Dilly was <2/1 in college. I think that's one of the most misleading stats in basketball. Good PGs turn it over. Good young PGs turn it over a ton - especially as they're trying to figure out what they can and can not do. And as their teammates adjust to them. I actually like seeing a decent amount of TOs in college players if they're turnovers of aggression and not just mistakes. Over in the WNBA Caitlin Clark is going to set records for assists and turnovers. But she's starting to carry her team to wins. The guys at the top of the A/TO list each year like Tyus and Morris are incredibly safe with the ball. They don't force anything, they make the safe play and they avoid mistakes. I don't think it drives winning.
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Post by levine on Jul 20, 2024 9:39:17 GMT -6
I'm generally not a fan of RealGM forums and I'm a "read only" guy over there, but there is a poster named "TheZachAttack" that's been writing some really good stuff on Dillingham in the past day or two. Warning: Its a lot. His posts are probably too long by a factor of 2 or 3. But they are very informative and I find them interesting enough to plow through. The really goos stuff starts on Page 22: forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2389558&start=420
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Post by tmirvin on Jul 20, 2024 17:47:09 GMT -6
How many of those guys who struggled as rookies were joining a 56 win team? Dilly isn't going to have to do the heavy lifting that most lottery picks need to. Certainly there are paths where Dillingham has a successful season. It's not impossible. I'm just trying to be realistic in projecting him next year. What do you/we think is a realistic projection for Dillingham's stats next year givenwhat we know presently? What FG%? 3pt%? Ass/TO? Considering that Dilly is likely to be a negative defensively what do those numbers have to be so that he's actually helpful? I get the impression that TJ was drafted to help this year and dillingham for the future. I wouldn't be surprised if TJ gets more minutes/bigger role than dillingham this season. Dillingham seems like a Lou williams/Jamal Crawford/Jordan Clarkston type. Those guys all get buckets but can't guard anyone and it's why none of them close games. Every guy has a role and I think dillingham's initial role is to be a spark plug when the offense bogs down and hopefully grow into a Iverson/Irving/curry-lite player. TJ is coming in to help now as a more all round player who is NBA ready. He's replacing Anderson, dillingham's replacing Morris/jmac. Morris & jmac barely played in the playoffs. Lastly, if Conley misses time due to injury, it'll force finch to play guy(s) he's refused to play up to this point. The middle of the season is a great time to find out if guys are capable players or not.
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Post by quinn on Jul 21, 2024 17:08:44 GMT -6
Well I'd say Dilly looked fine today.
25 pts. 11/18 from the field, 3/7 from deep. 12 assists, 5 TOs. Granted, old friend Jarrett Culver was the best player on the floor for Orlando, but it's still nice to see some production.
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Post by Nick K on Jul 21, 2024 18:11:24 GMT -6
Well I'd say Dilly looked fine today.25 pts. 11/18 from the field, 3/7 from deep. 12 assists, 5 TOs. Granted, old friend Jarrett Culver was the best player on the floor for Orlando, but it's still nice to see some production. He sure did. Maybe that will halt all the premature worry about him not being what we had hoped for. Sheesh!
Jarrett Culver last year was 1 for 12 from 3 with Atlanta. He scored 44 pts total all year. He should be playing in Europe. He might be the biggest miss in Wolves history at #6 overall.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jul 22, 2024 10:09:27 GMT -6
Well I'd say Dilly looked fine today. 25 pts. 11/18 from the field, 3/7 from deep. 12 assists, 5 TOs. Granted, old friend Jarrett Culver was the best player on the floor for Orlando, but it's still nice to see some production. I missed the game and my DVR didn't work. From the highlights though Dilly looked really good. Encouraging stuff. The successful finishing was good to see as that was my main concern. While he's not going to be beating guys with strength this year, adjusting to the physicality takes time so hopefully he's on his way. As I've said, I'm high on him long term. Ive only been and still have to question if he's going to be consistently impactful THIS season. As much as I was down on aspects of his initialplay, I've loved his playmaking all through SL. It actually makes his ceiling higher even if I'm more down on some of his game in the coming season. If he hits his ceiling, it's a better outcome with the PG skills he's showed. Maybe the path is like Lively for Dallas last year? Not as a player comp, but as a young guy that builds throughout the year help make an impact in the playoffs.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jul 22, 2024 10:20:43 GMT -6
Well I'd say Dilly looked fine today.25 pts. 11/18 from the field, 3/7 from deep. 12 assists, 5 TOs. Granted, old friend Jarrett Culver was the best player on the floor for Orlando, but it's still nice to see some production. He sure did. Maybe that will halt all the premature worry about him not being what we had hoped for. Sheesh!
Jarrett Culver last year was 1 for 12 from 3 with Atlanta. He scored 44 pts total all year. He should be playing in Europe. He might be the biggest miss in Wolves history at #6 overall.
Come on now...Flynn over Curry is hands down the biggest miss in our long history of draft mistakes. Even without knowing Flynn was a bust, where would he go in a current draft? He had a little more mass than Dilly, but is shorter I believe. He wasn't even a good 3 point shooter. Not sure a prospect like him would even be a 1st rounder anymore.
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Post by RAHchills on Jul 22, 2024 17:15:47 GMT -6
People worrying about Dilly at this point is short sighted. He will be just fine.
Agreed. Randy Foye’s impact on the team after winning summer league MVP taught me to use summer league as a data point - not an early indicator of future success. #mcfail
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Post by jojo on Jul 22, 2024 19:15:42 GMT -6
Sometimes it’s not the stats or good shooting. I just like the way Rob moves with ball while dribbling it on a string. Then he usually makes a good decision. Now defense is something else but he’s got Mike advising him on how to play defense at that size. Plus having Rudy lurking helps.
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Post by Nick K on Jul 22, 2024 23:12:34 GMT -6
He sure did. Maybe that will halt all the premature worry about him not being what we had hoped for. Sheesh!
Jarrett Culver last year was 1 for 12 from 3 with Atlanta. He scored 44 pts total all year. He should be playing in Europe. He might be the biggest miss in Wolves history at #6 overall.
Come on now...Flynn over Curry is hands down the biggest miss in our long history of draft mistakes. Even without knowing Flynn was a bust, where would he go in a current draft? He had a little more mass than Dilly, but is shorter I believe. He wasn't even a good 3 point shooter. Not sure a prospect like him would even be a 1st rounder anymore. I stand corrected. You're right. Not taking Steph Curry was a dagger in my heart. I could not believe the incompetence.
Watching Curry in the NCAA tourney showed me no one could guard him. They triple teamed him to no avail. How we could pass on him was my low point of many, many lows.
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Post by quinn on Jul 23, 2024 7:53:27 GMT -6
Sometimes it’s not the stats or good shooting. I just like the way Rob moves with ball while dribbling it on a string. Then he usually makes a good decision. Now defense is something else but he’s got Mike advising him on how to play defense at that size. Plus having Rudy lurking helps. I think one of the best things to happen to Rob this year will be getting minutes with Rudy. Dane's said it best, Rudy creates advantages for other players. He's going to create space for Rob off screens and his rolling threat will open up either a passing lane or a shot for Rob. I'm more curious to see how Rob will mesh with Ant and KAT. I think their games are a little less complementary. Rob will really need to be active off ball to be effective with both of them. They're the top 2 scoring options, and very ball dominant ones at that, so he's going to have to be a very active cutter and really become a dangerous spot up shooter.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jul 23, 2024 8:04:51 GMT -6
Sometimes it’s not the stats or good shooting. I just like the way Rob moves with ball while dribbling it on a string. Then he usually makes a good decision. Now defense is something else but he’s got Mike advising him on how to play defense at that size. Plus having Rudy lurking helps. I think one of the best things to happen to Rob this year will be getting minutes with Rudy. Dane's said it best, Rudy creates advantages for other players. He's going to create space for Rob off screens and his rolling threat will open up either a passing lane or a shot for Rob. I'm more curious to see how Rob will mesh with Ant and KAT. I think their games are a little less complementary. Rob will really need to be active off ball to be effective with both of them. They're the top 2 scoring options, and very ball dominant ones at that, so he's going to have to be a very active cutter and really become a dangerous spot up shooter. I've been impressed with Dilly finding and setting up others and you're right that should be enhanced with Rudy on the floor. I could see them having a nice two man game. Conley and Rudy have their thing, but it's been somewhat limited by Conley not really being able to get into the lane or to the rim like he used to. Curious is a good word for how the interaction could go with Ant and KAT. Conley adds spacing that helps those guys function and I think Dilly should be able to do that at some point. We shouldn't expect the same level of shooting though as Mike has been REALLY good from 3 for us. Dilly gives a lot more of a threat to do something of the catch though. I think he'll be better than Mike of getting a pass from Ant and then putting the defense in disadvantage leading to better secondary opportunities for Ant. Ant does a lot of damage going against a shifted defense and I think Rob can help create that better than Mike does individually. In general though, Ant and KAT need to learn to play better synergistically with each other. If they don't, I'm not sure how much Dilly can actually help us reach our ceiling offensively. I haven't watched a ton of team USA so hopefully Ant is learning how to complement other star players.
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Post by kingsxman on Jul 23, 2024 8:41:03 GMT -6
One thing to think about with Dilly and Rudy (or Dilly and KAT) is that he very well may only play with 1 of them after this year. I truly dont see how we can go on after this year with all 3 bigs. Unless something in the CBA or Cap changes.
Maybe we should be looking at how he pairs with Naz?
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Post by quinn on Jul 23, 2024 9:16:46 GMT -6
I think one of the best things to happen to Rob this year will be getting minutes with Rudy. Dane's said it best, Rudy creates advantages for other players. He's going to create space for Rob off screens and his rolling threat will open up either a passing lane or a shot for Rob. I'm more curious to see how Rob will mesh with Ant and KAT. I think their games are a little less complementary. Rob will really need to be active off ball to be effective with both of them. They're the top 2 scoring options, and very ball dominant ones at that, so he's going to have to be a very active cutter and really become a dangerous spot up shooter. I've been impressed with Dilly finding and setting up others and you're right that should be enhanced with Rudy on the floor. I could see them having a nice two man game. Conley and Rudy have their thing, but it's been somewhat limited by Conley not really being able to get into the lane or to the rim like he used to. Curious is a good word for how the interaction could go with Ant and KAT. Conley adds spacing that helps those guys function and I think Dilly should be able to do that at some point. We shouldn't expect the same level of shooting though as Mike has been REALLY good from 3 for us. Dilly gives a lot more of a threat to do something of the catch though. I think he'll be better than Mike of getting a pass from Ant and then putting the defense in disadvantage leading to better secondary opportunities for Ant. Ant does a lot of damage going against a shifted defense and I think Rob can help create that better than Mike does individually. In general though, Ant and KAT need to learn to play better synergistically with each other. If they don't, I'm not sure how much Dilly can actually help us reach our ceiling offensively. I haven't watched a ton of team USA so hopefully Ant is learning how to complement other star players. I do remember Jake Paynting in a Howls and Growls video after the first SL game showcasing how the Wolves were using Rob in a similar offensive context as Conley. If I remember correctly, Conley/Rob would run a two man game and then he would end up in the post and would flare out for a corner three once there was a roll threat. My guess is that'll be the majority of Rob's shots when he's playing with the starters. I don't think there's going to be a better PG for Rob to sit behind than Mike.
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Post by stretcharmstrong on Jul 23, 2024 14:01:10 GMT -6
It is SUMMER LEAGUE!!! You learn little from it in regards to a player doing well or not in the NBA. We want him learning and growing, that is it. We have seen players blow up SL only to look pathetic in the NBA. And seen players struggle in SL and do just fine in the NBA. Stop blowing this up.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Jul 23, 2024 14:33:25 GMT -6
It is SUMMER LEAGUE!!! You learn little from it in regards to a player doing well or not in the NBA. We want him learning and growing, that is it. We have seen players blow up SL only to look pathetic in the NBA. And seen players struggle in SL and do just fine in the NBA. Stop blowing this up. There are always outliers, but I believe there are analyses out there showing how struggling in SL has a fairly good correlation to struggling in the NBA. The opposite isn't true though.
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Post by levine on Jul 23, 2024 16:31:11 GMT -6
It is SUMMER LEAGUE!!! You learn little from it in regards to a player doing well or not in the NBA. We want him learning and growing, that is it. We have seen players blow up SL only to look pathetic in the NBA. And seen players struggle in SL and do just fine in the NBA. Stop blowing this up. There are always outliers, but I believe there are analyses out there showing how struggling in SL has a fairly good correlation to struggling in the NBA. The opposite isn't true though. I've read there is almost no correlation either way. Dillingham shot 36/31 Paul George shot 33/11 Jaylen Brown shot 32/21 as a rookie and 30/25 as a sophomore. Trae Young shot 30/27 Steph Curry shot 33/34 Chris Paul shot 37/33 Donovan Mitchell shot 39/31 J'Rue shot 38/31 Fox shot 44/13 SGA shot 45/25 Wembanyana shot 40/30 I could go on and on. It appears that poor shooting is kind of the norm in Summer League.
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