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Post by levine on Oct 16, 2024 11:08:12 GMT -6
Listening to lots of preseason talk and I have to push back a little on the sentiment that the Mavs completely handled the Wolves in the WCF. In game 1 the Wolves were up 6 with the ball to end the first half when Ant just threw the ball out of bounds. We should have had the last shot to extend the lead, but instead the Mavs went down and Kyrie made an and 1 to cut the lead to 3 going into the half. We lost the game by 3. In game 2 the Wolves were up 2 with 47 secs left when Jaden McDaniels was fouled and the ball went out of bounds as a result. The foul wasn't called and the call stood on review. Luka eventually hit the 3 to give Dallas the 1 pt win. The league changed the rules so that this year the review of the McDaniels TO would have given the ball back to MN. The Wolves split in Dallas which could have easily given the Wolves a 3-1 lead heading back to Target Center. Yes, the Wolves were smoked in game 5. I think that's all people remember though. They don't remember that it was a closely played series for the first 4 games. This is exactly right. Wolves are right there, and if Ant doesn't take that fall in Denver, and Wolves correct a handful of possessions, they easily could have taken one or both games one and two. We don't know if the Ant Timberwolves get will back there period. It's like when folks say well they aren't going to win with being 17th on offense, but last years team could easily have been 12-10 if we played halfway normal offense. Get Ant downhill in space with our two centers that are ideal for trail, lobs, and swinging out to Kat Man. To say Finch now has guys who play his system, sure, but then that begs the question what the f were we doing the last three years? We were we not trying to maximize the personnel we had, put them in best positions to succeed? All of that was left on the table. Our offense could be better, and Ant's numbers will look more like the high usage scorers across the league, but we could still be a worse team. Ant has more of a burden now against that salty Mav's and Thunder d come playoffs. A ton of speculation stated as facts. Ant could have less burden if we aren't forced into halfcourt sets so often. And I'm much less convinced we could've gotten much more out of KAT with your fictional better coach. A lot of KAT's offensive advantages disappear at the 4 when he's not quicker than the guy guarding him. KAT is an incredible shooter. Incredible. But he doesn't really move much, so he doesn't bend defenses, or get them into rotation. And he struggles with doubles when he gets the ball inside the arc. Look at the Dallas series. We never were able to do anything to get them out of their basic defense and they got very comfortable defending us. Guys like Donte (a true movement shooter) and Randle (a push the pace playmaker) will create more chaos and force defenses away from that comfort zone.
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Post by quinn on Oct 16, 2024 11:36:38 GMT -6
This is exactly right. Wolves are right there, and if Ant doesn't take that fall in Denver, and Wolves correct a handful of possessions, they easily could have taken one or both games one and two. We don't know if the Ant Timberwolves get will back there period. It's like when folks say well they aren't going to win with being 17th on offense, but last years team could easily have been 12-10 if we played halfway normal offense. Get Ant downhill in space with our two centers that are ideal for trail, lobs, and swinging out to Kat Man. To say Finch now has guys who play his system, sure, but then that begs the question what the f were we doing the last three years? We were we not trying to maximize the personnel we had, put them in best positions to succeed? All of that was left on the table. Our offense could be better, and Ant's numbers will look more like the high usage scorers across the league, but we could still be a worse team. Ant has more of a burden now against that salty Mav's and Thunder d come playoffs. A ton of speculation stated as facts. Ant could have less burden if we aren't forced into halfcourt sets so often.
And I'm much less convinced we could've gotten much more out of KAT with your fictional better coach. A lot of KAT's offensive advantages disappear at the 4 when he's not quicker than the guy guarding him. KAT is an incredible shooter. Incredible. But he doesn't really move much, so he doesn't bend defenses, or get them into rotation. And he struggles with doubles when he gets the ball inside the arc. Look at the Dallas series. We never were able to do anything to get them out of their basic defense and they got very comfortable defending us. Guys like Donte (a true movement shooter) and Randle (a push the pace playmaker) will create more chaos and force defenses away from that comfort zone. I think the bolded is what I expect to see a lot more of this year. Push the pace, because Rudy can run the floor extremely well, and put the defense on their heels to get Ant some easier looks in transition or off a swing for a catch and shoot. I'll be monitoring how well they grab and go off of misses to start the year.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 11:56:58 GMT -6
Ant could have less burden if we aren't forced into halfcourt sets so often. And I'm much less convinced we could've gotten much more out of KAT with your fictional better coach. A lot of KAT's offensive advantages disappear at the 4 when he's not quicker than the guy guarding him. The problem is we had little to none half court sets. Good teams do both, it's not just pushing pace for the sake of pushing pace. Wolves had an elite tempo playmaker and Finch had no idea how to use him, we gave the ball to D-Lo. By fictional coach I simply mean any middle school coach who's like what if we had guards initiate, which is different than why isn't Ant going to the rim against a set half court d, or why isn't Towns taking his guy off the dribble for a paint kick? We act like this is either or, but that makes no sense to me. I'm starting to think the analytics of the regular seasons makes people not understand ball anymore. Like the round about to having to get leaner, faster on offense versus just putting the ball in the hands of our guards last year, is so backwards to me. Do we think Naz, and McD are going to have more success as creators? My guess is it works the same amount of times it works for Karl and D-Lo initiating, which was alot of the regular season (especially FOM era) against young or tanking squads. O rating will be amazing those games, that's not half court playoff d, which is what we're trying to solve for. Solve for O.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 12:00:36 GMT -6
It's just like how not every answer to offense is we can only play five shooters to maintain space. Yes that is true if you only want to play spread offense, but how successful is that post FOM, when d doesn't have to back away from you all the way to the hoop.
Dallas also made OKC (best or among the best) 3 point shooting teams in the regular season sputter. Numbers are the result, not the story.
Pacers were one of the best O's in the league and at no point would anyone have considered them a serious contender.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 12:10:42 GMT -6
I guess the problem is citing 17 on offense (aside from how flawed just that number is anyway), it assumes Finch maximized that group offensively. I don't get why anyone would think that based on what we've watched for several years now.
What if the regular season ends with a schedule like that asterisk year's Jan/Feb, and offense looks gangbusters? Despite what those numbers would point to, the offense is still going to have the same issues they've had in the Finch era.
No question we can tinker, and tick that up or down, but we also could have with last years team. It's great we're playing Finch ball now, but that stubborness in having to stick to his principals on offense is a big reason why Wolves O was middling. We legit would have been better off having Micah, Mike or Kyle call O.
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Post by levine on Oct 16, 2024 12:21:14 GMT -6
I guess the problem is citing 17 on offense (aside from how flawed just that number is anyway), it assumes Finch maximized that group offensively. I don't get why anyone would think that based on what we've watched for several years now. What if the regular season ends with a schedule like that asterisk year's Jan/Feb, and offense looks gangbusters? Despite what those numbers would point to, the offense is still going to have the same issues they've had in the Finch era. No question we can tinker, and tick that up or down, but we also could have with last years team. It's great we're playing Finch ball now, but that stubborness in having to stick to his principals on offense is a big reason why Wolves O was middling. We legit would have been better off having Micah, Mike or Kyle call O. You're the only one that brings up 17th. Not all us "dumb fans". What we look at is we were 24th in pace and and 22nd in turnovers. So we played slow, but still turned it over way too much. We were 3rd in 3PT%, but only 23rd in attempts. Which means we didn't take advantage of one of our biggest weapons (and KAT was a big problem there).
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 12:27:51 GMT -6
Okay I just hear a lot of "never going to win a chip with being 17 at offense."
Pace stuff sounds like we needed a point guard! More structure and sets to get guards downhill also cuts down on turnovers. Literally everything Finch says he wanted the offense to do, he could have done, and at times Wolves did, and it was some of our best halves.
Playing slow is simply a lack of point guard, turning it over, and sputtering out is a lack of a head coach. We will play faster now, and shoot more three's but we can look at the teams who did that a season ago,and we were better than most if not all. To me it's far easier to tick up offense with last years group, than what we're attempting now.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 12:30:32 GMT -6
Thibs cut down on Kat's dumb drives despite leaning into five out, so it is not simply Rudy was there.
Same thing with Porz in C's, it's not like he was a primary initiator for them, he stayed within the kind of role that you would expect him in.
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Post by araxen on Oct 16, 2024 17:55:19 GMT -6
Randle is starting tonight.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 16, 2024 18:17:28 GMT -6
McD's body is starting to really fill out. He's looking good taking the ball to the basket.
Randle has a nice first step driving to the basket. Randle looks pretty good on defense too.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 16, 2024 18:31:36 GMT -6
Randle, Di, NAW, Minott, and Ant looks like fun out there right now. Minott for 3!!
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 18:55:59 GMT -6
Good to see Lonzo back out there. Would love Bulls to get a healthy Zach year, and team overall.
Getting some two bigs inside the arc? What year is it?
A little behind as I started late but looking decent so far.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 16, 2024 18:57:06 GMT -6
Randle definitely gives us a positive new look.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 19:23:24 GMT -6
I think I heard JP say Finch coached with McHale. Curse of Slender Man lives on. Very spooky.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 19:26:23 GMT -6
Might add Chicago and Kings to my playlist this year, and maybe Bucks.
I wonder what David (Kahn) is thinking tonight.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 19:29:38 GMT -6
When LaVine is healthy he is dirty offensively. Giddey will be fantastic for him and Vuch. Would love to see them finish above Indy and Philly.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 16, 2024 19:43:00 GMT -6
Might add Chicago and Kings to my playlist this year, and maybe Bucks. I wonder what David (Kahn) is thinking tonight. You and Kahn's wife are the only people in the universe wondering what David Kahn is thinking!
I'm trying to do my best to never think about these total losers from the past you keep bringing up.
I finally have something happy to think about with this team.
Chicago is fun to watch. The only difference in this game tonight is Chicago has made 6 more 3's than we have. 50% for Bulls...29% for MN.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 19:45:01 GMT -6
Did Ant have another insta baby recently or what’s going on? He’s got to average 30 for this to function!
I like Randle but he’s doing a lot of what I would call the anti-Naz tonight.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 19:46:04 GMT -6
Might add Chicago and Kings to my playlist this year, and maybe Bucks. I wonder what David (Kahn) is thinking tonight. You and Kahn's wife are the only people in the universe wondering what David Kahn is thinking!
I'm trying to do my best to never think about these total losers from the past you keep bringing up.
I finally have something happy to think about with this team.
Chicago is fun to watch. The only difference in this game tonight is Chicago has made 6 more 3's than we have. 50% for Bulls...29% for MN.
If they have a healthy White, LaVine, Ball and Giddey that’s a nice backcourt.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 16, 2024 19:51:57 GMT -6
You and Kahn's wife are the only people in the universe wondering what David Kahn is thinking!
I'm trying to do my best to never think about these total losers from the past you keep bringing up.
I finally have something happy to think about with this team.
Chicago is fun to watch. The only difference in this game tonight is Chicago has made 6 more 3's than we have. 50% for Bulls...29% for MN.
If they have a healthy White, LaVine, Ball and Giddey that’s a nice backcourt. I've always loved Zach. He was my wish pick in the draft and Flip actually took him! i liked White in the draft when we missed out on Garland and we took Culver.
It took White some time to put it together. He has faults but most players do.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 19:54:59 GMT -6
If they have a healthy White, LaVine, Ball and Giddey that’s a nice backcourt. I've always loved Zach. He was my wish pick in the draft and Flip actually took him! i liked White in the draft when we missed out on Garland and we took Culver.
It took White some time to put it together. He has faults but most players do.
Right. It’s like the world. It takes all types. Can’t build a team with five movement shooter any more than five Gobert’s. Five man sport. That’s what the people want. If Garza’s in this games over. That said if I had five Giddey’s I would be passing circles around every team in the league. Can’t miss a three if you turn it over.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 16, 2024 19:58:07 GMT -6
Look at Minott with 14 pts on 5 of 6 FG. I'm surprised but thrilled.
Wolves are back in it only down by 2.
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darko
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Post by darko on Oct 16, 2024 20:05:24 GMT -6
Garza and Minott should be starting.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 16, 2024 20:09:30 GMT -6
Garza is killing it again! In 11 minutes he just made a key defensive stop and has 11 points on 5of5. With 4 boards.
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Post by Nick K on Oct 16, 2024 20:11:21 GMT -6
Garza and Minott should be starting. I get the point. Both have looked great tonight. it won't be long before even Levine likes Garza. :)
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