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Post by wunderwolf on Nov 10, 2018 15:56:12 GMT -6
Butler and Patton for Covington, Saric, Bayless and a 2nd. Not a bad haul for a guy leaving anyway. Covington's contract will be nice. Another shoe to drop with Taj, Tolliver and Saric on the roster? What do you mean not a bad haul? IT is an awful haul for Butler. Two average to below average bench players and a 2nd round pick. Can you tell me why you think No defense Covington with a bad shot and slow footed Saric is a good haul at all? Stretch has always been a troll. Is it possible to block posters on this site?
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Post by XRaySpecs on Nov 10, 2018 15:59:07 GMT -6
Butler and Patton for Covington, Saric, Bayless and a 2nd. Not a bad haul for a guy leaving anyway. Covington's contract will be nice. Another shoe to drop with Taj, Tolliver and Saric on the roster? What do you mean not a bad haul? IT is an awful haul for Butler. Two average to below average bench players and a 2nd round pick. Can you tell me why you think No defense Covington with a bad shot and slow footed Saric is a good haul at all? What trade would you have preferred? The garbage 4 FRPs from Houston and Brandon Knight's contract? Richardson and Dion Waiters contract (if Richardson was even offered)?
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Post by XRaySpecs on Nov 10, 2018 15:59:52 GMT -6
I give this trade a C+. Covington can be that 3 and D guy we need. Saric still has potential. Hopefully we don't use him like we did Bjelica. Eh who am I kiding, Thibs is still the coach. Kinda of irked we gave up Patton. Bottom line why I don't grade it higher is because Josh Richardson + anything else is better than this trade. What was an A or B trade you would have preferred?
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Post by XRaySpecs on Nov 10, 2018 16:02:34 GMT -6
What do you mean not a bad haul? IT is an awful haul for Butler. Two average to below average bench players and a 2nd round pick. Can you tell me why you think No defense Covington with a bad shot and slow footed Saric is a good haul at all? Stretch has always been a troll. Is it possible to block posters on this site? Complainers who don't offer alternatives or anything besides negativity can hit the road as far as I'm concerned. We've got way too many pointing fingers at problems who aren't willing or able to try to address those problems.
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 10, 2018 16:18:30 GMT -6
As someone who lives near Philly, this is about as good a trade for us and as bad a trade for Philly as possible. Covington is a streak shooter but can D as well as anyone and Saric is a good shooter who is meh on D. It's a nice combo of low usage guys that we needed here. Badly.
Now if we can get rid of Wiggins, we're cooking...
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Post by levine on Nov 10, 2018 16:43:29 GMT -6
What do you mean not a bad haul? IT is an awful haul for Butler. Two average to below average bench players and a 2nd round pick. Can you tell me why you think No defense Covington with a bad shot and slow footed Saric is a good haul at all? Something tells me you didn't know that he was named First Team All-NBA Defense last year. He’s been one of the best defenders in the league for years.
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Post by levine on Nov 10, 2018 16:44:50 GMT -6
I give this trade a C+. Covington can be that 3 and D guy we need. Saric still has potential. Hopefully we don't use him like we did Bjelica. Eh who am I kiding, Thibs is still the coach. Kinda of irked we gave up Patton. Bottom line why I don't grade it higher is because Josh Richardson + anything else is better than this trade. Irked about Patton? We didn’t even pick up his 3rd year option for next year.
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Post by levine on Nov 10, 2018 16:55:57 GMT -6
It can’t be overstated how big of a deal the contracts are.
Saric is still on his rookie deal for 1 more year and Cov is a ridiculous bargain:
2018: $10,464,092 2019: $11,301,219 2020: $12,138,345 2021: $12,975,471
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Post by Bonecrusher on Nov 10, 2018 17:12:56 GMT -6
We weren't going to get a great haul for Butler but getting what we got I am excited.
We move Wiggins for Porter and move Taj for a ham sandwich and release DRose and fire Thibs and we have a very very solid team. I still bet if we offer Wiggins to Washington for Porter both teams will be happy and is a swap of bad contracts. Wiggins is in the Eastern Conference which I think will be better for him and under a different coach as well.
Monday should be a good game to see the new lineup.
If anyone has ESPN+ post their analysis please.
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Post by levine on Nov 10, 2018 17:15:27 GMT -6
The really exciting thing is we really modernized our roster for our next head coach.
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 10, 2018 17:20:07 GMT -6
Quick read...Pelton gives us a b, Philly a c-. That's a fair take.
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Post by wunderwolf on Nov 10, 2018 17:20:54 GMT -6
It can’t be overstated how big of a deal the contracts are. Saric is still on his rookie deal for 1 more year and Cov is a ridiculous bargain: 2018: $10,464,092 2019: $11,301,219 2020: $12,138,345 2021: $12,975,471 Yep. The plan to max out Butler was never going to work. 3 Max guys would have left us nothing else except rookie contracts and minimum contracts to fill out the roster. Our depth at the moment may be as good as we have ever had, however, I'm skeptical if tibs will be able to take advantage of it.
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 10, 2018 17:31:20 GMT -6
Pelton:
Philadelphia 76ers: C-
I've felt all along that the Sixers were the best destination for Butler, at least among the teams on his original wish list, because they are contenders now and his skill set fits well alongside Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons. However, I was envisioning a version of this deal built around former No. 1 overall pick Markelle Fultz that would have helped the Timberwolves more in the long run and been less painful for Philadelphia in the short term. This is a different gamble altogether, one that may only be the start of moves to come for the 76ers.
Adding Butler gives Philadelphia three players who ranked in the top 20 of ESPN's NBArank exercise before this season, something only the Golden State Warriors (who actually had four) can also boast. At the same time, trading two starters who were averaging a combined 64 minutes per game this season for one contributor -- Patton is sidelined and unlikely to see meaningful playing time if healthy -- will test the Sixers' already questionable depth. (Even Butler can't possibly play 64 minutes per game.)
By virtue of the three-for-two trade, Philadelphia now has 14 players on full NBA contracts. (Neither of the 76ers' two-way players, Demetrius Jackson and Shake Milton, has seen any playing time.) Two of them, Patton and Zhaire Smith, are sidelined by recurrent foot injuries. Another two, rookie Jonah Bolden and second-year wing Furkan Korkmaz, have seen limited playing time. That leaves Brett Brown with exactly 10 reliable rotation options, several of whom -- including Wilson Chandler, still on a minutes limit as he works back from hamstring injury -- have a history of missing extended periods.
So Philadelphia is betting on either near-perfect health or the ability to continue adding to the roster midseason. While the Sixers had to trade away their biggest expiring contract, belonging to Bayless, they still have expiring deals for Mike Muscala ($5 million), Patton ($2.7 million) and Korkmaz ($1.7 million) that could be used to add depth, plus Chandler's $12.8 million contract for a bigger move. With an open roster spot and their $4.45 million room midlevel exception still available to offer, Philadelphia also becomes an attractive destination for buyout candidates, having added Marco Belinelli and Ersan Ilyasova through this route last season.
In the long run, the Sixers retain a decent amount of flexibility even if they re-sign Butler as an unrestricted free agent this summer, as they plan to do, according to a report by ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski and Zach Lowe. With Butler's $30.8 million cap hold on the books, Philadelphia still projects to have in the neighborhood of $19 million in cap room next summer to add pieces around a core of Butler, Embiid, Simmons and perhaps Fultz. With so many of their rotation players to be free agents -- the 76ers would have to renounce the rights to Chandler, Muscala and J.J. Redick to maximize their cap space -- nailing those pickups will be crucial as Philadelphia aims to build the strongest possible team as Embiid and Simmons enter their prime years.
From the Sixers' perspective, the evaluation of this trade comes down to this question: Will Butler be more valuable than Covington, Saric and whoever they could have signed with the $15 million or so extra cap space they would have had next summer? That question is debatable, and depends a great deal on how attractive you think Philadelphia would be as a destination for max free agents.
At this point, I'd lean toward saying no. While Butler isn't likely a rental acquisition despite his ability to become a free agent next summer by declining a $19.8 million player option (a near certainty), his next contract may prove an overpay as Butler ages.
And despite Butler's ability to play with or without the ball, which makes him a good on-court fit with Simmons and Embiid -- although perhaps not Fultz, given the Sixers get awfully light on shooting with all four players together -- there's also the question of how he'll blend with young leaders in the locker room after clashing with teammates in both Chicago and Minnesota.
Given those concerns, and the fact that the depth hit means this doesn't necessarily make Philadelphia much stronger now, I probably would have passed on this particular incarnation of a Butler trade. That analysis, however, treats this as the ultimate move rather than the start of a Sixers makeover. If they can improve their depth between now and the playoffs, adding Butler will do more to help them win in the short term.
Minnesota Timberwolves: B
After they fell to 4-9 with Friday night's loss to the Sacramento Kings, their fifth consecutive defeat after a .500 start, it was obvious the Timberwolves could no longer hope to stay in contention this season with Butler on the roster. Adding two starters will improve Minnesota's depth as the team hopes to salvage this season while keeping an eye on the future.
From the Timberwolves' standpoint, there's a lot to like about this deal. Unlike reported offers from the Houston Rockets and Miami Heat, this one doesn't force Minnesota to take on any negative, long-term salary. Bayless is in the final season of his contract, leaving the Timberwolves with a pair of team-friendly contracts. Covington is just starting a four-year, $47 million deal that pays him like a fringe starter going forward (in exchange, Covington got a balloon payment last season as part of a renegotiation of his previous contract), while Saric will make a combined $6 million this season and next as part of his rookie contract.
Although it was obviously Minnesota's preference, re-signing Butler to a max deal next summer would have put the Timberwolves in the luxury tax, a tough position to justify for a non-contender. With Covington and Saric on the books instead, Minnesota will have somewhere between $12-15 million in buffer room under the tax if Jeff Teague picks up his $19 million player option for 2019-20. Things could get a bit trickier in 2020-21, after Saric's rookie contract expires and before Gorgui Dieng's deal ends, but the Timberwolves have time to figure that situation out.
Minnesota also gets two players who are immediate contributors but young enough to grow with the Timberwolves' young core of Karl-Anthony Towns (who will turn 23 next week) and Andrew Wiggins (already 23). At 28, Covington has a 3-and-D skill set that should age reasonably well, and Saric is 25.
The downside here is that the Timberwolves get neither a draft pick of consequence out of the Butler trade nor a young prospect with star potential. Covington has likely maxed out his development, and while Saric has more upside given his youth and playmaking ability, his slump to start this season has exposed how dependent Saric is on making 3s (as he did in 2017-18 at a 39 percent clip) to score efficiently.
With little hope of adding a star through free agency or the draft, Minnesota is suddenly counting on Wiggins achieving the potential that made him the No. 1 overall pick in 2014, two spots ahead of his injured Kansas teammate Embiid. So far, Wiggins has been unable to channel his skill set and athletic gifts into anything but volume scoring. With Butler's departure, Wiggins has the opportunity to justify a leading role in the offense. If not now, that may never happen for Wiggins despite his youth.
When Tom Thibodeau came to Minnesota after Towns' promising rookie season, the Timberwolves' potential appeared limitless. Now, in part because of the original deal for Butler, one I wholeheartedly endorsed at the time, their ceiling appears much more modest. (Getting nothing from the pick acquired from Chicago with Butler, used on Patton before injuries derailed his development, has been a key factor. The next two centers drafted were promising John Collins and Jarrett Allen.)
There's no going back for Minnesota, and if a package from the Heat centered around promising wing Josh Richardson was off the table after Richardson's strong start to the season, there probably wasn't a better deal available for the Timberwolves. Having shed Butler and his baggage, they'll have to try to make the most of this season and what remains of their young core.
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Post by cory on Nov 10, 2018 18:15:01 GMT -6
This is a great trade given the circumstances. I'd take it over the Rockets deal and I would likely take it over a Josh Richardson deal. I don't believe Richardson will provide that much more value then Covington will over the next 3-4 years, at least not enough to cancel out what you get out of Saric. Any other Heat players we took back were going to be dead contract space and negative value. We begin to look for some relief and a team centered around KAT with complimentary pieces. Richardson is very good, but I don't think he has much more progression left.
We'll be adding a lottery pick to the team which could be a complimentary piece but it's likely to be a wing given the depth at that spot. There is a lot of things up in the air but in an ideal scenario, we would be selling off Taj and Teague to anyone who would give us picks (2nd rounders) and short term contracts and looking at moving Wiggins. I don't know if there is any market for any of those players but they should all be shopped. Wiggins will have time to show if he is anything more than what we have seen. I won't hold my breath. And if Thibs is in charge, no deal will likely be looked at. And if an interim is in place, Glen probably won't give them the leash to do much besides sell off 1 year contracts if possible.
Any deal that would get Gorgui off the books would be a slam dunk also. If Phoenix really wants Tyus, I would try to attach them together for Ariza and see if they bite.
I would also keep my eyes on Terry Rozier. The Celtics have too many guys. He is the exact type of guard that KAT needs to play with, lightning quick, keeps his man in front of him, and can hit 3's and be dangerous in a pick and roll with a head of steam. If he's available, we should make a play for him but it would likely have to involve a future pick and I'd be hesitant to do that.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Nov 10, 2018 18:37:37 GMT -6
This is a great trade given the circumstances. I'd take it over the Rockets deal and I would likely take it over a Josh Richardson deal. I don't believe Richardson will provide that much more value then Covington will over the next 3-4 years, at least not enough to cancel out what you get out of Saric. Any other Heat players we took back were going to be dead contract space and negative value. We begin to look for some relief and a team centered around KAT with complimentary pieces. Richardson is very good, but I don't think he has much more progression left. We'll be adding a lottery pick to the team which could be a complimentary piece but it's likely to be a wing given the depth at that spot. There is a lot of things up in the air but in an ideal scenario, we would be selling off Taj and Teague to anyone who would give us picks (2nd rounders) and short term contracts and looking at moving Wiggins. I don't know if there is any market for any of those players but they should all be shopped. Wiggins will have time to show if he is anything more than what we have seen. I won't hold my breath. And if Thibs is in charge, no deal will likely be looked at. And if an interim is in place, Glen probably won't give them the leash to do much besides sell off 1 year contracts if possible. Any deal that would get Gorgui off the books would be a slam dunk also. If Phoenix really wants Tyus, I would try to attach them together for Ariza and see if they bite. I would also keep my eyes on Terry Rozier. The Celtics have too many guys. He is the exact type of guard that KAT needs to play with, lightning quick, keeps his man in front of him, and can hit 3's and be dangerous in a pick and roll with a head of steam. If he's available, we should make a play for him but it would likely have to involve a future pick and I'd be hesitant to do that. In a vacuum, I'd take Richardson over Covington and Saric hands down, but salary matching is a real part of trades and not adding bad salary like was reported with Miami is a legit concern for a team like the Wolves. Richardson's ability to initiate some offense is an underrated skill. He already took another step forward this year and I wouldn't rule out even more improvement. Covington on the other hand doesn't have any remaining upside. He's a great complementary guy, but I that's all. Saric has some upside, but he's got defensive concerns and has to shoot well to be a positive. He could use a better coach to help his development (joining the club).
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Post by cory on Nov 10, 2018 19:06:32 GMT -6
In a vacuum, I'd take Richardson over Covington and Saric hands down, but salary matching is a real part of trades and not adding bad salary like was reported with Miami is a legit concern for a team like the Wolves. Richardson's ability to initiate some offense is an underrated skill. He already took another step forward this year and I wouldn't rule out even more improvement. Covington on the other hand doesn't have any remaining upside. He's a great complementary guy, but I that's all. Saric has some upside, but he's got defensive concerns and has to shoot well to be a positive. He could use a better coach to help his development (joining the club). I have not had much of a chance to watch Richardson but from what I have read that sounds about right. He may have another level to jump but if this is his peak, it's at least a close conversation. And like you said, the other assets attached to the deal can be a drastic swing. Saric will ultimately be the piece that really could swing the deal. I think he has quite a bit of upside but maybe I'm overrating him. I thought he looked out of shape the one time I saw him this year.
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Post by cory on Nov 10, 2018 20:36:33 GMT -6
With Patton being included, we officially dealt Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn, and Lauri Markannen for Robert Covington, Dario Saric, 1 year of memories and a playoff berth as an 8 seed.
Not great.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 11, 2018 0:33:06 GMT -6
As someone who lives near Philly, this is about as good a trade for us and as bad a trade for Philly as possible. Covington is a streak shooter but can D as well as anyone and Saric is a good shooter who is meh on D. It's a nice combo of low usage guys that we needed here. Badly. Now if we can get rid of Wiggins, we're cooking... CC, I'm loving it because you live there and know these guys. I trust you above all.
Now if we can just get the right coach to spread these guys out and go to work.
Now, what kind of defensive scheme do you come up with?
Seriously, we have to defend teams differently and be able to mix it up. It doesn't seem like Thibs to come up with something like that.
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Post by Nick K on Nov 11, 2018 2:06:19 GMT -6
This is a great trade given the circumstances. I'd take it over the Rockets deal and I would likely take it over a Josh Richardson deal. I don't believe Richardson will provide that much more value then Covington will over the next 3-4 years, at least not enough to cancel out what you get out of Saric. Any other Heat players we took back were going to be dead contract space and negative value. We begin to look for some relief and a team centered around KAT with complimentary pieces. Richardson is very good, but I don't think he has much more progression left. We'll be adding a lottery pick to the team which could be a complimentary piece but it's likely to be a wing given the depth at that spot. There is a lot of things up in the air but in an ideal scenario, we would be selling off Taj and Teague to anyone who would give us picks (2nd rounders) and short term contracts and looking at moving Wiggins. I don't know if there is any market for any of those players but they should all be shopped. Wiggins will have time to show if he is anything more than what we have seen. I won't hold my breath. And if Thibs is in charge, no deal will likely be looked at. And if an interim is in place, Glen probably won't give them the leash to do much besides sell off 1 year contracts if possible. Any deal that would get Gorgui off the books would be a slam dunk also. If Phoenix really wants Tyus, I would try to attach them together for Ariza and see if they bite. I would also keep my eyes on Terry Rozier. The Celtics have too many guys. He is the exact type of guard that KAT needs to play with, lightning quick, keeps his man in front of him, and can hit 3's and be dangerous in a pick and roll with a head of steam. If he's available, we should make a play for him but it would likely have to involve a future pick and I'd be hesitant to do that. In a vacuum, I'd take Richardson over Covington and Saric hands down, but salary matching is a real part of trades and not adding bad salary like was reported with Miami is a legit concern for a team like the Wolves. Richardson's ability to initiate some offense is an underrated skill. He already took another step forward this year and I wouldn't rule out even more improvement. Covington on the other hand doesn't have any remaining upside. He's a great complementary guy, but I that's all. Saric has some upside, but he's got defensive concerns and has to shoot well to be a positive. He could use a better coach to help his development (joining the club).These are my concerns in a nutshell. Maybe we just have to chalk it up to acting on the best deal we had available.
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 11, 2018 4:26:50 GMT -6
As someone who lives near Philly, this is about as good a trade for us and as bad a trade for Philly as possible. Covington is a streak shooter but can D as well as anyone and Saric is a good shooter who is meh on D. It's a nice combo of low usage guys that we needed here. Badly. Now if we can get rid of Wiggins, we're cooking... CC, I'm loving it because you live there and know these guys. I trust you above all.
Now if we can just get the right coach to spread these guys out and go to work.
Now, what kind of defensive scheme do you come up with?
Seriously, we have to defend teams differently and be able to mix it up. It doesn't seem like Thibs to come up with something like that.
Regardless of who coaches them, Saric is limited defensively. He's a good role player and when he's hot from outside he's a really good shooter (41% from 3 after the all star break last year). He's an upgrade over Bjelly. Covington is streaky as heck on offense but he is our legitimate defender who can defend both forward slots without hesitation (and occasionally can defend 2's). The key to both of those guys is that they aren't going to be "needy" with the ball. Covington's usage rate the past two full seasons has been 19 and 17. Saric was 21 last year, 25 as a rookie (he became the Embiid role the second half of his rookie year which drove his usage numbers up). From an offensive standpoint, the team will have some better spacing and KAT & perhaps Wiggins (if the turd flushes into the toilet) can benefit from that. Both guys are relief valves - I think our offense may flow better although Rose may iso too much for that this season (I think next year, assuming Thibs is sent packing, that should improve). I argue a lot about "fit", complimentary skill sets, and pecking order. There were too many "needy" guys on the roster with Butler, KAT, Rose, Teague, and Wiggins - all have to have the ball a lot to be effective and to feel loved. We had only four guys on this roster who I could consider legitimate relief valve glue guys - Taj, Tyus, Dieng, and Tolliver (Okogie isn't experienced enough or effective enough on offense to be included yet but should be in time). We now have 6 (and arguably one of the better low usage, higher value guys in the league with RoCo) while reducing the offensive pecking order to 4 - KAT, Rose, Wiggins, and Teague (not necessarily but pretty close to that order). KAT will get more touches (probably) and I think Wiggins will be a bit more comfortable on offense (maybe). There's still some issues with fit with Rose & his iso tendencies, Teague and decision making, Wiggins and simply having a pulse, and KAT and getting the ball fed to him from the guards. I also think Okogie and/or Tolliver get squeezed out of the roster and I'm not sure that's a positive at this point. We still have horrific defenders in several spots on this roster (Rose, Teague, Wiggins) and lack a lockdown frontcourt defender to pair up with KAT. Taj is average defensively and doesn't have hop (neither does Saric). Dieng is what he is - average, solid, but not going to be a lockdown. I don't think this trade saves the Wolves season but it positions us better in the long run...IF (and big IF) we can construct a better roster down the line to support KAT (and Wiggins). I would love to find a way to ping a shot blocking big from someone by dealing Teague, Taj, Rose, Tyus, and/or Tolliver. Maybe a Taj for Mahinmi & a 2nd rounder if DC's season goes completely up in smoke. Would also love to swing a deal for a guard who can set up offense effectively (this may be where Rose or Teague gets dealt for that piece) and can play some defense. Even though George Hill is on the wrong side of 30, trading Teague straight up for him would not be a bad move for us or for Cleveland since they could use a guy who is a bit more of a scorer while easing Colin Sexton along. While I'm very happy about the return we got given the circumstance, I don't see this as franchise-transforming or saving Thibs. I do see it as removing a cancer from the organization and getting some legitimately good guys and solid role players who will provide some clarity on the court regarding offense. It also provides us some flexibility financially...although we're still in a bind regarding the cap.
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Post by The Country Club on Nov 11, 2018 4:51:40 GMT -6
In a vacuum, I'd take Richardson over Covington and Saric hands down, but salary matching is a real part of trades and not adding bad salary like was reported with Miami is a legit concern for a team like the Wolves. Richardson's ability to initiate some offense is an underrated skill. He already took another step forward this year and I wouldn't rule out even more improvement. Covington on the other hand doesn't have any remaining upside. He's a great complementary guy, but I that's all. Saric has some upside, but he's got defensive concerns and has to shoot well to be a positive. He could use a better coach to help his development (joining the club). I have not had much of a chance to watch Richardson but from what I have read that sounds about right. He may have another level to jump but if this is his peak, it's at least a close conversation. And like you said, the other assets attached to the deal can be a drastic swing. Saric will ultimately be the piece that really could swing the deal. I think he has quite a bit of upside but maybe I'm overrating him. I thought he looked out of shape the one time I saw him this year. Saric played international ball in the offseason for Croatia as part of World Cup qualifying. Unlike the US (we're playing G-League guys in qualifying), he went over. He's somewhat "gassed" from not having a true offseason. I also think there's been some issues with the 76ers' offense from a flow/fit standpoint (Fultz's inclusion in the rotation plus playing some rookies in the lineup like Shamet and Bolden has really mucked up their passing game - they had 343 passes/game last year, 296 this year).
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Post by stretcharmstrong on Nov 11, 2018 6:26:54 GMT -6
I'M not a troll to say this is not a great trade. Did I think they would get anything great once the season started, no. There are concerns about both players the Wolves received. There is limited upside with both players. Ideally, both should be role players off the bench. And as long as Thibs is coach, role players on the bench do not help the team. As for finding a solution, that is not my job to find one. I would have liked the Richardson deal better if he was offered. I disliked the 4 draft pick deals as well, it would have been worse than this deal. The front office and team mucked this up. Just because we got a deal does not mean we have to think it is a good one. Maybe keeping Lavine and Markkanen would have been just as good for the team.
What the team needs is a young player with enough upside to develop with KAT. Sairc may have hit his ceiling last year. He was a liability in the playoffs. Covington really has no ceiling, he is an average player who on occasion will contribute.
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dnyce
New Member
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Post by dnyce on Nov 11, 2018 8:01:44 GMT -6
I'M not a troll to say this is not a great trade. Did I think they would get anything great once the season started, no. There are concerns about both players the Wolves received. There is limited upside with both players. Ideally, both should be role players off the bench. And as long as Thibs is coach, role players on the bench do not help the team. As for finding a solution, that is not my job to find one. I would have liked the Richardson deal better if he was offered. I disliked the 4 draft pick deals as well, it would have been worse than this deal. The front office and team mucked this up. Just because we got a deal does not mean we have to think it is a good one. Maybe keeping Lavine and Markkanen would have been just as good for the team. What the team needs is a young player with enough upside to develop with KAT. Sairc may have hit his ceiling last year. He was a liability in the playoffs. Covington really has no ceiling, he is an average player who on occasion will contribute. You must have an interesting definition of average. Covington is literally one of the best 3 & D guys in the NBA. I'm not sure how that makes him average, but to each his own.
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Post by cory on Nov 11, 2018 8:16:26 GMT -6
I have not had much of a chance to watch Richardson but from what I have read that sounds about right. He may have another level to jump but if this is his peak, it's at least a close conversation. And like you said, the other assets attached to the deal can be a drastic swing. Saric will ultimately be the piece that really could swing the deal. I think he has quite a bit of upside but maybe I'm overrating him. I thought he looked out of shape the one time I saw him this year. Saric played international ball in the offseason for Croatia as part of World Cup qualifying. Unlike the US (we're playing G-League guys in qualifying), he went over. He's somewhat "gassed" from not having a true offseason. I also think there's been some issues with the 76ers' offense from a flow/fit standpoint (Fultz's inclusion in the rotation plus playing some rookies in the lineup like Shamet and Bolden has really mucked up their passing game - they had 343 passes/game last year, 296 this year). That makes sense. He just didn't have the same activity offensively that I remember him having last year and was slow footed. I like his fit long term here. We just need to find a 3rd big who can rebound, protect the rim, and not need the ball at all to fill out rotation big slots.
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Post by vlad on Nov 11, 2018 9:19:01 GMT -6
With Patton being included, we officially dealt Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn, and Lauri Markannen for Robert Covington, Dario Saric, 1 year of memories and a playoff berth as an 8 seed. Not great. You also must consider that we do not end up paying 20mln/y for Zack and 40mln/year for Butler. I'd say that judgement is still out, because it would be Covington, Saric and whoever we sign for that extra cap space. To be honest, I always loved Butler, but if the difference between him and Covington the next year is about 25-30 mln, I'd take Covington. Markannen had a good year, but I am not that positive that he will become better then Saric at the end. Nobody here wanted Markannen here anyway.
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