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Post by levine on Sept 20, 2018 9:40:54 GMT -6
Sam Amico:
"I wouldn’t trade for him," the opposing GM told Amico Hoops. "Someone will, eventually. But he’s a problem."
"I’m not buying much of anything being put out there," the opposing GM told Amico Hoops. "Butler’s reps are probably the source for most of this stuff, so we’re probably only hearing the very best of Butler being reported. But the guy has been two places, hasn’t really won (anything) and is causing issues. He has an inflated view of his own importance if you ask me. I wouldn’t want him on my team."
"He didn’t want to play in Chicago, he doesn’t want to play in Minnesota," the opposing GM said. "Does he actually even want to play? Or does he just have people kiss his ass and receive a big paycheck?
"Look, there is no doubt Jimmy is extremely talented. He can help you win games. He gets after it on defense. But he’s not proven to be a team player. It’s one thing to put up numbers. How about having your teammates’ back and being a leader? He doesn’t do those things. I doubt he ever will.
The opposing GM wasn’t finished.
"He’s been a huge hassle for everyone I’ve talked to with both (the Bulls and Timberwolves)," the GM said. "I don’t care where they trade him. He’s still going to be there. Changing uniforms isn’t going to change Jimmy Butler. He needs to change himself. I wouldn’t take that risk. For Jimmy, it’s always all about Jimmy. Forget that, man."
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Post by tjstyles on Sept 20, 2018 9:41:49 GMT -6
Nonsense. Lavine coming off an ACL averaged 17 pts 4 rebs in limited minutes. Dunn avg'd 14 and 6 and never played better. He showed what we only saw glimpses of and Markkanen had a very good rookie season. Better than I expected.
So that means we gave up 3 lottery picks for Jimmy in a 1 yr rental plus a guy with a glass foot. I guarantee you Chicago wouldn't reverse that deal.
Paying the max to Wiggins and Towns and $19.5M to LaVine means we stay a lottery team forever. LaVine is a 6th-man at best and he is making starter level money. Same with Wiggins. If our 3 best (and highest paid players) are those 3, we are the Pelicans for the last 5 years. We will see what we get for Butler, but even if "all we get" is salary to spend on a player better than LaVine, we won the trade. Granted, it would have been even better to get a piece like Butler that actually fit with the personalities on the team, but I suspect that a lot of what was going on was Butler looking to get out for Irving. He wants to play with Irving in a big market and he doesn't want to have to sacrifice his Bird Rights contract. He knew that the only way he could do that is if he made it an salvageable situation here in MN and demanded a trade. Otherwise he would have to try and convince his new team to give up assets in order to pay him more money. And, I believe that would also make some interesting situations with bringing on Irving. I think his cap hold as a UFA is less than the salary he could get being signed-and-traded to the team, so that could affect his ability to get to a team he wants with Irving. If he is traded this season at his current salary, he can have them sign Irving first, then get a max contract under his Bird Rights.
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Post by cory on Sept 20, 2018 9:50:05 GMT -6
I'm happy to see someone calling out Wiggins for his energy. We have all done it for years and I think it's completely fair of Jimmy to say I don't want to play with this kid who doesn't bring it every night. This should have been done over the summer but the message is not wrong.
Maybe this will wake Andrew up on a nightly basis. If it doesn't, nothing will.
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Post by levine on Sept 20, 2018 9:53:55 GMT -6
The Suns and Nuggets are, among opposing executives speculating on Butler’s future, expected to be teams making offers.
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Post by FRUSTRATED on Sept 20, 2018 9:54:15 GMT -6
I'm happy to see someone calling out Wiggins for his energy. We have all done it for years and I think it's completely fair of Jimmy to say I don't want to play with this kid who doesn't bring it every night. This should have been done over the summer but the message is not wrong. Maybe this will wake Andrew up on a nightly basis. If it doesn't, nothing will. This may be my single biggest thing I am now looking forward to for this season. Andrew giving it right back to Stephen Jackson raised my eyebrows maybe the kid is truly going to play with a chip on his shoulder and dominant Andrew shows up more often this season.
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Post by tjstyles on Sept 20, 2018 9:57:36 GMT -6
Is anyone out there able to translate Butler's tweet for me? Wiggins' brother used actual words in his tweet while it would appear to the untrained eye that Butler responded by slamming his face on his keyboard several times. I am pretty sure Jimmy had a stroke mid-tweet.
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Post by WolvesLife on Sept 20, 2018 10:05:02 GMT -6
Is anyone out there able to translate Butler's tweet for me? Wiggins' brother used actual words in his tweet while it would appear to the untrained eye that Butler responded by slamming his face on his keyboard several times. I am pretty sure Jimmy had a stroke mid-tweet. There's a video in that article, once you play it you'll understand
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Post by tjstyles on Sept 20, 2018 10:10:00 GMT -6
Is anyone out there able to translate Butler's tweet for me? Wiggins' brother used actual words in his tweet while it would appear to the untrained eye that Butler responded by slamming his face on his keyboard several times. I am pretty sure Jimmy had a stroke mid-tweet. There's a video in that article, once you play it you'll understand Ah, thanks. I am at work, so I paused the video before reading the article. I'll check it out later.
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Post by levine on Sept 20, 2018 10:16:51 GMT -6
Apparently Shams is saying Jimmy's list might be expanding to 5 or 6 teams.
He REALLY wants that MAX.
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Post by jzwoopwoop on Sept 20, 2018 10:27:45 GMT -6
Apparently Shams is saying Jimmy's list might be expanding to 5 or 6 teams. He REALLY wants that MAX. Good. The more teams he adds to his list, the higher is trade value is.
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Post by XRaySpecs on Sept 20, 2018 11:39:33 GMT -6
Apparently there's a rumor that Jimmy slept with KAT's girlfriend back in May. KAT has denied.
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Post by BIG BAD WOLF on Sept 20, 2018 11:44:15 GMT -6
Apparently there's a rumor that Jimmy slept with KAT's girlfriend back in May. KAT has denied. What does KAT know? I bet he wasn't there...
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Post by XRaySpecs on Sept 20, 2018 11:49:28 GMT -6
To be fair, Butler's on point with Wiggins' work ethic and effort but I hate the shade tossing over social media - childish and petty. I would not be upset at all if Wiggins were cleared out of here as part of the gig. I completely agree. Unfortunately, people are going to "rally" around Wiggins in the fallout. I have no doubt that his scoring will perk back up without Jimmy, but there's nothing to suggest it'll be more than empty #'s. I'm afraid that Jimmy leaving will only extend the leash on Wiggins for a few more years as the increased scoring will again stoke the fire that he's turning a corner. I'd still deal Wiggins for a better fitting role player type like Buddy Hield without 2nd thought.
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Post by BIG BAD WOLF on Sept 20, 2018 11:57:59 GMT -6
I think you're on to something there. If the money worked I'd do Hayward for Butler straight up any day of the week. Ainge doesn't want Butler. He had every opportunity to trade for him and passed. He doesn't fit what they're building, and he doesn't fit Ainge's preferred personality type. He's also not a great fit because he's ball dominant and not a good outside shooter. They're better off with Brown, Tatum, Hayward and Smart. Brown,Tatum, Hayward, Smart <<< Brown, Tatum, Butler, Kyrie. I bet Ainge sees that as well. He lets Kyrie go to NYK to join JB, then come playoffs time he has to go thru Porzi/Butler/Irving to make the finals. BOS might not have an answer on their current roster to any of those three. Ainge might dislike JB, but at this point he must be very confident he can talk Kyrie into staying in BOS for his new contract since he's not making any moves to prevent him from leaving. Ainge should take a page from the GSW book: one year they have a hell of a hard time going thru OKC, next year they sign Durant... problem solved! Addition (to your roster) by subtraction (to your opposition roster) is a thing.
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Post by levine on Sept 20, 2018 12:58:23 GMT -6
I agree with Ainge. I wouldn't do it.
There is no way I trade Brown or Tatum for Butler. They both are far too good and far too young to consider moving - and if they wouldn't trade either for Kawhi, they sure won't for Jimmy.
Hayward is a tougher call. Jimmy is probably the better player, but Hayward's all-around game is a better match for Boston, he's willing to come off the bench if its best for the team (although a Brown/Tatum/Hayward switching everything at the 2/3/4 will be devastating), and it would be a really bad look to trade the guy who signed with you to play for his college coach after playing 1 game.
I also think its far from a lock that Irving and Butler end up together. Say Jimmy gets traded to the Clippers and they finish somewhere between the 6th and 10th seeds, while Boston goes to the finals. Do you think Irving makes that switch?
There are rumors every year of guys wanting to play together. Very few follow through when the chance arrives.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 20, 2018 13:07:27 GMT -6
Sam Amico: "I wouldn’t trade for him," the opposing GM told Amico Hoops. "Someone will, eventually. But he’s a problem." "I’m not buying much of anything being put out there," the opposing GM told Amico Hoops. "Butler’s reps are probably the source for most of this stuff, so we’re probably only hearing the very best of Butler being reported. But the guy has been two places, hasn’t really won (anything) and is causing issues. He has an inflated view of his own importance if you ask me. I wouldn’t want him on my team." "He didn’t want to play in Chicago, he doesn’t want to play in Minnesota," the opposing GM said. "Does he actually even want to play? Or does he just have people kiss his ass and receive a big paycheck? "Look, there is no doubt Jimmy is extremely talented. He can help you win games. He gets after it on defense. But he’s not proven to be a team player. It’s one thing to put up numbers. How about having your teammates’ back and being a leader? He doesn’t do those things. I doubt he ever will. The opposing GM wasn’t finished. "He’s been a huge hassle for everyone I’ve talked to with both (the Bulls and Timberwolves)," the GM said. "I don’t care where they trade him. He’s still going to be there. Changing uniforms isn’t going to change Jimmy Butler. He needs to change himself. I wouldn’t take that risk. For Jimmy, it’s always all about Jimmy. Forget that, man." I think most of us are thinking the same thing.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 20, 2018 13:18:36 GMT -6
I'm happy to see someone calling out Wiggins for his energy. We have all done it for years and I think it's completely fair of Jimmy to say I don't want to play with this kid who doesn't bring it every night. This should have been done over the summer but the message is not wrong. Maybe this will wake Andrew up on a nightly basis. If it doesn't, nothing will. I think so too Cory with a proviso. It's Jimmys job to play the best he can and be a great and supportative team mate. That is his obligation in return for 20-30 million a year in salary. If he doesn't like it he can ask to be traded but not 5 days before the start of the next season. This should have all come out on the exit interviews last April.
The thing about Jimmy is he's a total dick about this.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 20, 2018 13:20:57 GMT -6
Apparently Shams is saying Jimmy's list might be expanding to 5 or 6 teams. He REALLY wants that MAX. Every extra team helps a ton.
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Post by cory on Sept 20, 2018 13:27:40 GMT -6
I'm happy to see someone calling out Wiggins for his energy. We have all done it for years and I think it's completely fair of Jimmy to say I don't want to play with this kid who doesn't bring it every night. This should have been done over the summer but the message is not wrong. Maybe this will wake Andrew up on a nightly basis. If it doesn't, nothing will. I think so too Cory with a proviso. It's Jimmys job to play the best he can and be a great and supportative team mate. That is his obligation in return for 20-30 million a year in salary. If he doesn't like it he can ask to be traded but not 5 days before the start of the next season. This should have all come out on the exit interviews last April.
The thing about Jimmy is he's a total dick about this.
Agree. Jimmy can be right on Wiggins and still be a dick with how this whole thing has been handled. He doesn't look good but he doesn't look the worst, Thibs takes that honor he has honestly stuck his head in the sand for months just hoping the problem will go away. He doesn't deserve a leadership position doing anything and every piece of failure coming out of this situation starts with him.
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Post by Nick K on Sept 20, 2018 13:47:48 GMT -6
I think so too Cory with a proviso. It's Jimmys job to play the best he can and be a great and supportative team mate. That is his obligation in return for 20-30 million a year in salary. If he doesn't like it he can ask to be traded but not 5 days before the start of the next season. This should have all come out on the exit interviews last April.
The thing about Jimmy is he's a total dick about this.
Agree. Jimmy can be right on Wiggins and still be a dick with how this whole thing has been handled. He doesn't look good but he doesn't look the worst, Thibs takes that honor he has honestly stuck his head in the sand for months just hoping the problem will go away. He doesn't deserve a leadership position doing anything and every piece of failure coming out of this situation starts with him. Amen.
Best reason to get rid of Thibs NOW.
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Post by BIG BAD WOLF on Sept 20, 2018 14:15:23 GMT -6
In all this crazy whirlwind of news and blame and what not, let's not forget KAT has a pretty large fault here too. Yes, allegedly JB did hit (or more than "hit") on his GF. Yes things got ugly on a personal level. Yes, JB is a dick. But he is a dick who is a good BBall player, and a major contributor to a team on the up and coming. A team which is headlined by KAT. A team that is HIS team, regardless of what JB says or does.
I can understand KAT not being happy with the guy (I hope he is at least as unhappy with his former GF too). But you really do not have to be buddies with him, you just have to pass him the ball and he has to pass it to you. Just be professional, check your personal feelings, pride, and biases at the door and go to work doing a job for which you are paid WAY too much anyway.
But no, KAT not only did not do that, not only did he use his leverage to get JB out of the team this year, he wanted to hit him in the wallet too. He wanted Jimmy to lose his Bird rights to be forced to take a lower contract as revenge for crossing him, The Chosen One. That is a dick move on KAT's side on par with Jimmy's screw up. KAT did not have to do that. He could have done what's best for the team and the fans: agree to play out the year and let the Butler drama unfold next summer. The team would have been better this year, and likely MIN would have done a sign and trade for another max player next summer which would have made the team better next year. KAT showed he has no regard for the team or the fans for doing what he did. Now he will be heading into a losing season with major changes coming up and likely nothing to show for at the end other than a lottery pick. All the fans are completely miffed and deflated about the future of this team, and all that should be on KAT. If you are going to boo Jimmy next time he comes in town, make sure to treat KAT to the same courtesy. He more than deserves it!
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Post by RAHchills on Sept 20, 2018 14:19:31 GMT -6
I'm happy to see someone calling out Wiggins for his energy. We have all done it for years and I think it's completely fair of Jimmy to say I don't want to play with this kid who doesn't bring it every night. This should have been done over the summer but the message is not wrong. Maybe this will wake Andrew up on a nightly basis. If it doesn't, nothing will. Butler didn't use the phrase "keep that same energy" to refer to Wiggins' effort on the court. It's about Wiggins and his brother bringing that same attitude and trash talk the next time they and Butler see each other in person... so they can fight. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Keep%20that%20same%20energyStephen Jackson tells Wiggins and his brother to do the same thing in a follow up video rant. They're no longer talking about basketball. :) “Make Sho Yo Energy Straight When U C Me Breh” Sidenote: This is a fun read on the topic of Stephen Jackson's involvement if you can handle the profanity:www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/9/20/17882678/lol-who-told-andrew-wiggins-fighting-stephen-jackson-was-smart-this-is-why-the-timberwolves-suck
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Post by RAHchills on Sept 20, 2018 14:37:41 GMT -6
In all this crazy whirlwind of news and blame and what not, let's not forget KAT has a pretty large fault here too. Yes, allegedly JB did hit (or more than "hit") on his GF. Yes things got ugly on a personal level. Yes, JB is a dick. But he is a dick who is a good BBall player, and a major contributor to a team on the up and coming. A team which is headlined by KAT. A team that is HIS team, regardless of what JB says or does. I can understand KAT not being happy with the guy (I hope he is at least as unhappy with his former GF too). But you really do not have to be buddies with him, you just have to pass him the ball and he has to pass it to you. Just be professional, check your personal feelings, pride, and biases at the door and go to work doing a job for which you are paid WAY too much anyway. But no, KAT not only did not do that, not only did he use his leverage to get JB out of the team this year, he wanted to hit him in the wallet too. He wanted Jimmy to lose his Bird rights to be forced to take a lower contract as revenge for crossing him, The Chosen One. That is a dick move on KAT's side on par with Jimmy's screw up. KAT did not have to do that. He could have done what's best for the team and the fans: agree to play out the year and let the Butler drama unfold next summer. The team would have been better this year, and likely MIN would have done a sign and trade for another max player next summer which would have made the team better next year. KAT showed he has no regard for the team or the fans for doing what he did. Now he will be heading into a losing season with major changes coming up and likely nothing to show for at the end other than a lottery pick. All the fans are completely miffed and deflated about the future of this team, and all that should be on KAT. If you are going to boo Jimmy next time he comes in town, make sure to treat KAT to the same courtesy. He more than deserves it! Are you saying that if a new coworker came into your company and after a brief period of time belittled you publicly, (allegedly) hit on / got with your significant other, and publicly flirted with not buying into the organization's long term vision - that you'd just turn the other cheek and be "professional" about it all? I'm not buying it. Jimmy Butler didn't ask to come to MN, but he messed with his own future income potential by handling the entire situation the way that he did post all star break... Dude's an idiot for not understanding KAT's leverage in this situation. And he's a locker room cancer, period. If there was any doubt, the whole league knows it now.
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Post by tjstyles on Sept 20, 2018 14:38:02 GMT -6
In all this crazy whirlwind of news and blame and what not, let's not forget KAT has a pretty large fault here too. Yes, allegedly JB did hit (or more than "hit") on his GF. Yes things got ugly on a personal level. Yes, JB is a dick. But he is a dick who is a good BBall player, and a major contributor to a team on the up and coming. A team which is headlined by KAT. A team that is HIS team, regardless of what JB says or does. I can understand KAT not being happy with the guy (I hope he is at least as unhappy with his former GF too). But you really do not have to be buddies with him, you just have to pass him the ball and he has to pass it to you. Just be professional, check your personal feelings, pride, and biases at the door and go to work doing a job for which you are paid WAY too much anyway. But no, KAT not only did not do that, not only did he use his leverage to get JB out of the team this year, he wanted to hit him in the wallet too. He wanted Jimmy to lose his Bird rights to be forced to take a lower contract as revenge for crossing him, The Chosen One. That is a dick move on KAT's side on par with Jimmy's screw up. KAT did not have to do that. He could have done what's best for the team and the fans: agree to play out the year and let the Butler drama unfold next summer. The team would have been better this year, and likely MIN would have done a sign and trade for another max player next summer which would have made the team better next year. KAT showed he has no regard for the team or the fans for doing what he did. Now he will be heading into a losing season with major changes coming up and likely nothing to show for at the end other than a lottery pick. All the fans are completely miffed and deflated about the future of this team, and all that should be on KAT. If you are going to boo Jimmy next time he comes in town, make sure to treat KAT to the same courtesy. He more than deserves it! Couldn't disagree more. KAT did not make a public demand for JB to be traded. He declined to extend. When asked, he was honest: he doesn't want to maintain a long-term professional relationship with Butler. He is under no obligation to sign an extension with the Wolves. If someone is on this team that he doesn't want to play with, he is well within his rights to choose to go into UFA and sign with another team. He simply said "choose one". That said, I am also not upset with Butler for demanding a trade given the circumstances. I actually think both of them have stepped up to tell the team how it is instead of playing out their contract and walking away. There is a reasonable chance that had one or the other not said something, we would end up with neither of them. KAT has a right to not want to associate with Butler. Every one of us has the right to just go and find a new job when that happens (and I have before). This is the only option KAT (and Bulter) have for deciding who they work with. While I agree it would have been better for them to figure out a way to put it behind them and move on, some times it's too far along. KAT pulling the trigger on this now, is quite literally the best option for everyone involved. It's better for the team, who can now get something for Butler. It's better for Butler, so he can now get his max contract. It's better for the team that trades for Butler cause they can have the best chance of keeping him (and maybe getting Irving in the process). And we don't have to deal with another season of water and oil on the court. I agree that KAT played a big role in this: he was the only one with the balls to do the right thing.
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Post by levine on Sept 20, 2018 14:57:20 GMT -6
Lowe: Says that teams don’t want to give Jimmy the 5/190, they prefer the 4 year deal and not having to trade assets for him.
Jon Krawczynski✔@jonkrawczynski In canvassing the league, there are a number of teams interested in Jimmy Butler. Not all of them would need assurances that Butler will sign long-term. Still unsure if Thibs will change stance and start engaging in trade talks.
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